Why Northern Virginia? (Hampton, Leesburg: middle-class, health insurance, low crime)

[payroll]

Why is Northern Virginia talked about in relocating but always a complaint on traffic and high houses especially with what they are saying about the housing market on the bubble.

[Electron]

Consumerism. Everybody thinks that big fat paycheck will make up for all the hell in the concrete jungle. I talk about it, only because I used to be one of those rats in that race.

[rubytue]

Electron has it right. People who ask about coming here have a great job offer and are seeing the money. People who live here see the reality of traffic and why the salaries are so high. $300k for 950 sq ft? ug!

I'm a rat trying to find my way out of the maze.

[SteelCityRising]

I suspect a lot of this is fueled from the "entitlement" attitude that some of my peers in the younger generation now have. If Northern Virginia is anything like New Jersey, then I can see some clear similarities. Our family drove through Leesburg and Loudoun County two years ago on our way down to Hampton Roads, and all I could think was "YUCK! Talk about traffic, and vinyl siding and chain stores are everywhere!" We've become a materialistic society---One that is always craving more and more. At a time when people are starving in Somalia, people in America are throwing out iPods in favor of iPod Nanos! People see their neighbors buying an Audi A6, so they rush out and buy an Audi A8 just to "outdo" them. In my subdivision, when someone mows their lawn, you suddenly hear a cacophony of other lawnmowers starting up as well, as nobody wants to be known as "those people with the high grass!"

Being at the young age of 19, I was disgusted to see classmates driving Mercedes-Benzes, Audis, and even a Range Rover to my high school! Now at King's College, I still see the commuter parking lot filled with expensive brand new vehicles---How could they possibly afford these? I work nearly full-time at Lowe's, and I still can't afford to move out on my own, much less buy a $35,000 vehicle, so how can they? That's right---Mommy and daddy bought them for them on their 16th birthdays so they could show off their family's spending power to the neighbors who couldn't afford to buy little Johnny or Susie even a junker car! Consumerism isn't even a strong enough word for it---Try "avarice."

I suspect Northern Virginia (at least from what we saw) is full of these "Keeping up with the Jones's" fools. I don't think having a husband and wife each working two jobs in order to upkeep their lifestyles while neglecting to spend time with their children is a good example of "utopia" at all! People probably equate Loudoun County as being the "perfect escape to DC's problems." However, if segregating yourselves by social status so that your children never get to experience diversity until it smacks them in the face when they head back to DC at age 22 for a job interview is a good example of "protecting our children", then I'm glad I grew up in a lower-middle-class neighborhood!

How can you truly be happy working 70-hour workweeks and commuting 90 minutes one way each day to upkeep your lifestyles? The same could be said for here in Scranton, where some people are now starting to commute TWO HOURS into Manhattan daily for work. Meanwhile, their unsupervised children end up joining gangs, doing drugs, having sex parties, etc. while their parents are in a Big Apple cubicle. Sometimes you need to ask yourself "When will it stop?!" I suspect the Scranton-NYC commute issue is similar to the Leesburg-DC commute issue---You're spending WAY too much time away from your families! Growing up, a child cares MORE about the affection they receive from their parents, not about which German car adorns your four-car garage!

[VT Hokie 2007]

Actually, I know plenty of people who work 40 hour work weeks, drive nice but older cars, and are anything but pretentious. I live right smack dab in the middle of Tyson's Corner and I know a ton of people like that. In fact, there isn't a person I know in Northern Virginia who works 70 hour work weeks.

BTW, I live in the heart Tyson's Corner and my budget is $32,000 per year and I live VERY nicely--I have plenty of food, a nice apt., a nice car, I take vacations, I have health insurance (that I pay for), car insurance, a cell phone, I do plenty of things, and I give to charity and my church. I truly don't know where people get off saying the place is too expensive. $32k! Think of it! And there aren't many jobs in DC that pay less than $40,000!

[SteelCityRising]

Well, VT, then you are a shining beacon of what I'd consider to be "success." You're actually the rare suburbanite who hasn't yet given into the "rat race" lifestyle, and to that I give you credit. I just had a negative experience when we drove through Loudoun County, as I saw nothing but luxury SUVs, large homes, strip malls, traffic, etc. I give you credit for being happy with your life in an era where most Americans seem to always be "wanting something more" from life. The amount of people here in the chi-chi Scranton 'burbs who are living beyond their means is disgusting; People just whip out the plastic for everything, and we now have twenty-something couples filling up $500,000 homes while not nearly being able to afford them---I call it the "Caviar taste on a Wal-Mart budget" syndrome.

I'm sorry if I offended anyone with that stereotype, but I just assumed that Northern Virginia was likewise a "rat race" type of an area, but I guess apperances can indeed be deceiving. ;o) I just don't like to see children growing up without having as much love and attention from their parents as they need, as it tends to lead to emotional problems down the line (you can take a gander as to whose life experiences I'm pulling from here). I don't like suburbs for the simple reason that they usually end up isolating people based on social status and class (At least where I live; I'm not sure if the upscale subdivisions in Loudoun County are teeming with African-Americans and Hispanic-Americans are not, so correct me again if I'm mistaken).

I didn't mean to "attack" VA in that originial post of mine; I just don't want to see you people putting your careers ahead of your families so much, as the Scranton-NYC commuters have begun to do. ;o(

[SteelCityRising]

By the way, Hokie, I think all of these other "whiners" could also easily live on a $30,000-$40,000 household income if they wanted to. You aren't a part of the "rat race"; The ones who are being "priced out" of VA are the ones who try to "keep up" with the new Lexus and Range Rover in the driveway and the five-bedroom home for their one child while not earning enough to make payments on them! My parents earn $75,000 annually combined, yet we manage to live quite comfortably in one of Scranton's "up-and-coming 'burbs" just because they live well within their means. I also earn just $9/hr., but I'm still able to give to charity and treat my friends to meals because I drive a jallopy of a car and have been wearing the same clothes now for several years. Now, if I were to try to rush out and buy a new Corvette to be like some of my friends whose parents bought them sports cars on their 16th birthdays, then I'd be in the same "woe is me; I can't afford my lifestyle" boat that most in Northern VA seem to be in. Folks, you can't shop at Tiffany & Company on a Wal-Mart budget! Whipping out the plastic may enable you to do so....until the bill arrives in the mail! If everyone "lived within their means" instead of ammassing massive debts so early in life, then perhaps the "rat race" would finally die off? ;o)

[dullnboring]

I see what you're saying Scranton and Hokie and I generally tend to agree.

The cost of living is ridiculous in Northern Virginia and elsewhere by any standard, but there are ways to make it work, and a lot of it is about choices and the way you choose to prioritize. You don't NEED a massive SUV. People claim that it makes trips easier and they can fit more groceries in them which is true, but you don't NEED that. People have gotten by just fine without SUVs for hundreds of years. That's just one example, but it really is symptomatic of the "keeping up with the Jones'" culture which I think seems to seep into most communities and minds in this country, not just those in Northern Virginia. It's actually something that I see within my own family that makes me uncomfortable as well. Particularly my sister-in-law (married into the family two years ago) who seems to compare herself to her friends who are more well-off than she and my brother are (mostly due to parents helping them out) and just seems to never be content with what she's got. I think a lot of people, including her, just want and expect everything too soon. They want the perfect life and they want it now, even if that means making questionable financial choices. There doesn't seem to be as much patience nowadays to save up, gradually making improvements to your life. They want a big new house, in a big planned subdivision, with low crime and terrific schools and near shopping centers and they want it now.

I too have always questioned why it is that many people feel that the far-flung exurbs are the ideal place to raise children. I feel that people make the areas out to be some utopia that they're not. Yes the schools have good test scores and there isn't much street crime, but kids get bored and start trouble, there's more drugs probably than in the inner city, there's bullying, kids drink, have sex, drag race, and truthfully, I've met people who went to "poorer" high schools that myself and foudn them to be just as intelligent and knowledgable and educated on subjects as I was. I don't feel like I had a particularly great education in spite of going to a "good" high school. But back to what Scranton was saying, I too find it odd when people are willing to try to financially give their children a better life but negate the emotional aspect of it.

I'm not trying to come off as anti-suburb as there are plenty of reasons why one could prefer to live there. I also believe that the intentions, particularly of those with children, are genuinely good, but I just feel like oftentimes, it brings with it a lot of baggage. Whether that baggage be paying more money than you can realistically afford to have a nice house to ensure a good school district for the kids and therefore have a nice big house but are essentially still poor and struggling, or whether you find yourself growing more distant from your children as a result of moving further out and increasing your commute time and time away from them, and things of that nature.

I live in Loudoun County at the moment. I didn't grow up here and I don't like it at all. This "type" of living isn't for me, but of course, I'm also a young single guy who so it feels like it has less to offer me than it does perhaps a family. Since I don't really socialize or even feel like I "live' here and didn't grow up here (although I grew up not too far away), I can't say whether the lifestyle here is as "keeping up with Jones'" as it may appear. I think Loudoun County is generic suburbia, and as such, most likely there is some of that element. Of course, there are also people here who found themselves priced out and having to move here without choice, and people who have tight-knit families and who commute far to work and make it work, and love it as well.

Oh, and as a quick little bulletpoint, I have to say that Loudoun County is actually fairly ethnically diverse. The high school that serves the area that I currently live in, in Ashburn, Broad Run High School, is 10% Black, 10% Hispanic, and 15% Asian, and this is an area that is sparkly new, homogenous (in terms of architecture and vibe) mostly middle-to-upper middle class suburbia.

[Electron]

Dn'B, you're in a single man's paradise. You should work the nightshift somewhere, and do landscaping or pool work on the side. Have you any idea how many of those stay at home trophy wives are looking for some attention? Jeez man, get on with it!!!

Kidding aside, you nailed it with "Jones Syndrome', especially among relatives. My queen has a cousin that is stuck in that BIG TIME. Everything now is her creed, and it's a shame.
But don't knock the SUV thang, unless you put the making payments clause in there. I got a bigass Sub, but it's owned by the Bank of Electron, not BB&T.

[jmarkd]

Scranton, you're a little idealistic/unrealistic, and judgemental as heck. I agree with most of what you're saying, but what you're practicing is another form of snobbery- "I'm better than they are because I have better priorities, etc."

Don't begrudge people their successes. If an SUV makes someone happy it doesn't make them a bad person or shallow. A lot of folks may be living beyond their means but it doesn't make them bad or less virtuous than you. They just have made bad decisions. Those bad decisions may come back to haunt them some day, but leave that to God and the banks because like most things it's out of your and my control.

As for neglected kids, there are plenty of other things- I mean if it wasn't money or keeping up with the Joneses, parents would find another way to ***** them up. In other words the materialism is the symptom but not the disease.

I am one of those souls stuck in the rat race. All I want out of it is for walls of my own and a yard for the wife and 2.2 kiddies, which is financially out of reach in this area (without interest-only/ARM/etc.). I do plenty of "cursing the darkness" but I am coming to realize I will not be happy unless I light the proverbial candle, i.e. learn to like where I'm at or find a better place to live/work.

"The way things ought to be" is a noble idea but it will never happen. Do your best for yourself, as you seem to be doing, and have an impact on others, and you will help things.

Anyway, these are my observations from the rat race.