Tysons Failing (Arlington, Reston, Fairfax: tenant, construction, gated)

[Carlingtonian]

Originally Posted by tysonsengineer

Oh come now! The best way to see an area (it's successes and it's failings) is on foot not by car. Afterall the entire idea is improving how Tysons is outside of the vehicle.

I'd be up for it, but no cars :P Park it at the mall and walk over on a warm day.

I'd actually agree that on foot is the best way to see places in general--but is Tysons there yet? Would one not run an increased risk of being run over?

[tysonsengineer]

There are a few spots that remain dangerous, namely along Route 123 between Anderson and Colshire, any time you want to walk under the beltway, anywhere near the Route 7/123 bypass, or any part of 123 towards Vienna. So all the main culprits that have been discussed on this thread already.

But you'd be surprised how easy it is to walk in North Tysons (although there are crosswalk/sidewalk gaps that are being resolved) because of the smaller road sections.

That being said, there's still not much to see in Tysons. The best area is the plaza as of now, which is fine, will be better once the new restaurants open up in Spring, it's only a shake shack and ice rink right now. The area near Fairfax Square is nice too.

Maybe in 2 years after a couple more projects open up and lease. Till then, its still pretty isolated; walkable in parts, but isolated.

[Zack]

Originally Posted by TheWatchmen

66 and 395 are not comparable to 7. 50 is somewhat comparable.

50 is a good comparison as it has the same issues of 7 and 123 in that it's very challenging to cross for pedestrians, and really divides the area. Unless Tysons eventually makes 7 and 123 somewhat hospitable to cross, the area will end up with a bunch of unconnected micro-neighborhoods. To get from one micro-neighborhood to another will require a car which won't help the traffic on either road, and probably will exasperate problems.

The solution might by to cut up 7 and 123 into boulevards a'la Wilson/Clarendon Blvd in Arlington. If the left turn lanes were taken out and the road split up in to one-way streets, then pedestrians would only be crossing 3-5 lanes; a manageable amount.

[Carlingtonian]

Originally Posted by Zack

50 is a good comparison as it has the same issues of 7 and 123 in that it's very challenging to cross for pedestrians, and really divides the area. Unless Tysons eventually makes 7 and 123 somewhat hospitable to cross, the area will end up with a bunch of unconnected micro-neighborhoods. To get from one micro-neighborhood to another will require a car which won't help the traffic on either road, and probably will exacerbate problems.

That's pretty much what Arlington is like (as you may know). Easy to walk between adjacent neighborhoods (or even all down the Orange Line if one is so inclined)--but beyond that, it would be tough. That said, they've added sidewalks to the bridge by which Glebe crosses 50. And next door in Falls Church, there's a massive footbridge over 50 near the Home Depot, but all the pedestrians seem to cross at Patrick Henry instead (which is far more dangerous for them).

[tysonsengineer]

Originally Posted by Zack

50 is a good comparison as it has the same issues of 7 and 123 in that it's very challenging to cross for pedestrians, and really divides the area. Unless Tysons eventually makes 7 and 123 somewhat hospitable to cross, the area will end up with a bunch of unconnected micro-neighborhoods. To get from one micro-neighborhood to another will require a car which won't help the traffic on either road, and probably will exasperate problems.

The solution might by to cut up 7 and 123 into boulevards a'la Wilson/Clarendon Blvd in Arlington. If the left turn lanes were taken out and the road split up in to one-way streets, then pedestrians would only be crossing 3-5 lanes; a manageable amount.

Micro should be put in context. North Tysons (in between Route 7/123/DTR) and has almost no massive barriers unlike other parts of Tysons is the same size as VA square, Clarendon, and Courthouse Combined. Tysons East, which is the Pimmit portion all the way up to south side of Route 123 is the same size as Courthouse and Clarendon combined and contains no roads wider than 2 lanes each direction.

So there is opportunity to grow into those areas, hit a critical threshold to make entrenched opinion about road diets change, and then come back to reform 123/7. But in the current political/commuter mindset in Tysons, the needs of the many commuters are outweighing those few (20,000 of us) who live here. If that were to grow to 50,000; thats 5-7% of the population of Fairfax, and a sizeable voting block, maybe then it would change.

[NOLA101]

Originally Posted by tysonsengineer

Do you concur that a lot of what Arlington looked like in 1970 is similar? Lots of surface parking lots. Some over sized badly designed intersections? The one thing Arlington had before was a street grid, but that is fairly superficial in fixing; just takes time, but its not really a big cost just something that naturally happens with each building.

If you concur Arlington also was not the walkable mixed use area in the 70s, then you must consider that we are simply seeing a recurrence of what happened in Arlington but now in Tysons.

Arlington has nothing to do with Tysons.

Arlington was built in the pre-auto age, and was always walkable. Tysons was built during the auto age, and never had any accomodation for pedestrians.

Tysons will never, ever resemble Arlington, ever. It will always be sprawl, unless they demolished the entire thing back to dirt, removed all roadways, and started from scratch. Even then, highly unlikely, as it would be an island.

[Carlingtonian]

Originally Posted by NOLA101

Arlington has nothing to do with Tysons.

Arlington was built in the pre-auto age, and was always walkable. Tysons was built during the auto age, and never had any accomodation for pedestrians.

Tysons will never, ever resemble Arlington, ever. It will always be sprawl, unless they demolished the entire thing back to dirt, removed all roadways, and started from scratch. Even then, highly unlikely, as it would be an island.

That's a little oversimplified. Arlington was built from farms mostly in the 1930s (well into the auto age), but it wasn't the car-fest that was the '50s and '60s--so fair enough. But Arlington does have a lot of highways running through it. Rosslyn is not easily walkable due to narrow sidewalks and lots of car traffic competing for walk signals. Route 50 is discussed above. Glebe, George Mason Drive, and Carlin Springs Road are not that walkable, having sidewalks here and there. Same for Wilson Blvd west of Ballston.

I'm not complaining about the latter, by the way; for those without cars (and I was one for years, well into my 30s), there are buses. We have enough downtowny mixed-use development in Arlington and should keep a few roads to serve as efficient arterials for driving between neighborhoods, not slow them down with bike lanes, street-level retail, hipster rent-a-bikes, and other so-called "vibrancy."

[gomason]

Originally Posted by NOLA101

Arlington has nothing to do with Tysons.

Arlington was built in the pre-auto age, and was always walkable. Tysons was built during the auto age, and never had any accomodation for pedestrians.

Tysons will never, ever resemble Arlington, ever. It will always be sprawl, unless they demolished the entire thing back to dirt, removed all roadways, and started from scratch. Even then, highly unlikely, as it would be an island.

You mean a place that was once called "Parkington" was not a creature of suburban sprawl?

Look at these pictures if you still think that: 'Then & now' aerial images of America's best TOD: Arlington, VA | Now with Rosslyn - SkyscraperPage Forum and http://arlingtonva.s3.amazonaws.com/...art_Growth.pdf.

I'm not complaining about the latter, by the way; for those without cars (and I was one for years, well into my 30s), there are buses. We have enough downtowny mixed-use development in Arlington and should keep a few roads to serve as efficient arterials for driving between neighborhoods, not slow them down with bike lanes, street-level retail, hipster rent-a-bikes, and other so-called "vibrancy."

I think 50 does a pretty good job at that.

[rabscuttle385]

Originally Posted by frostopsy

The perfect storm of the economy picking up elsewhere in the country while it's dragging here is going to make it enticing for the valued workforce here to pick up and move elsewhere. Not too mention it's still not cheap to live here, I think people would (and I see it at my office) take an opportunity elsewhere for a cheaper cost of living and a competitive pay.

Make it enticing? You mean...make it even more enticing than it already was.

I work in tech, and I have lost track of how many of my twenty-something friends, both natives and transplants, have packed up and left the DC area since I entered the work force in 2010.

For Austin.

For the Bay Area.

For Denver.

For Portland.

For Pittsburgh.

For Atlanta.

In fact, I myself am planning on running away this summer. I can get the same - or better - compensation for what I do in most major metro areas with a significant drop in cost of living.

[Zack]

Originally Posted by tysonsengineer

Micro should be put in context. North Tysons (in between Route 7/123/DTR) and has almost no massive barriers unlike other parts of Tysons is the same size as VA square, Clarendon, and Courthouse Combined. Tysons East, which is the Pimmit portion all the way up to south side of Route 123 is the same size as Courthouse and Clarendon combined and contains no roads wider than 2 lanes each direction.

So there is opportunity to grow into those areas, hit a critical threshold to make entrenched opinion about road diets change, and then come back to reform 123/7. But in the current political/commuter mindset in Tysons, the needs of the many commuters are outweighing those few (20,000 of us) who live here. If that were to grow to 50,000; thats 5-7% of the population of Fairfax, and a sizeable voting block, maybe then it would change.

North Tysons has International Dr, Westpark, and Spring Hill which aren't the most pedestrian friendly roads to cross either. Much of that area is built out residential which won't get changed, and the other areas are far from the Metro. I believe the area near the Metro will be built up, but that's not a huge area.

Tyson's East has more potential since 123 is the only real bad road, but again a lot of existing residential in the way. If 123 had some underpasses built like Connecticut or Massachusetts Ave in DC, it could be narrowed to 2-3 lanes and the whole section made very pedestrian friendly.

A good example of the problem is the Tysons Corner Mall section that is hemmed in by 7, 123, 495, and International. They are building residential buildings on that site, but unless you only hang out at the mall, a driving is going to be necessary to go anywhere, so the local traffic will simply worsen.

Same thing with the Koons site right next to one of the metro stations. There's only a small buildable area that's going to be hemmed in by 7, 123, and existing, low density residential areas.