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Old 04-21-2011, 11:58 AM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,297 posts, read 120,930,380 times
Reputation: 35920

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Here is a cost-benefit analysis of childhood vaccines:

Every Child by Two - Economic Value of Vaccines

According to an extensive cost-benefit analysis by the CDC, every dollar spent on immunization saves $6.30 in direct medical costs, with an aggregate savings of $10.5 billion. When including indirect costs to society -- a measurement of losses due to missed work, death and disability as well as direct medical costs -- the CDC notes that every dollar spent on immunization saves $18.40, producing societal aggregate savings of $42 billion.xxxii Various cost-benefit analyses produce similar measurements.xxxiii

It certainly behooves the insurance companies to promote immunization. And even if that's not why they're doing it, at least they're doing the right thing, even if for the wrong reason.

 
Old 04-21-2011, 11:58 AM
 
17,183 posts, read 22,957,254 times
Reputation: 17479
Default Misconceptions about vaccines debunked

Misconceptions about Vaccines and Facts - Vaccine Safety - Public Health Agency of Canada (http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/im/vs-sv/factsfigs-eng.php - broken link)

Quote:
1. Diseases had already begun to disappear before vaccines were introduced, because of better hygiene and sanitation.

Statements like this (variations include assertions that vaccines had absolutely no effect on disease rates) are very common in anti-vaccine literature, the intent apparently being to suggest that vaccines are not needed. Improved socioeconomic conditions have undoubtedly had an indirect impact on disease. Better nutrition, not to mention the development of antibiotics and other treatments, have increased survival rates among the sick; less crowded living conditions have reduced disease transmission; and lower birth rates have decreased the number of susceptible household contacts. But looking at the actual incidence of disease over the years can leave little doubt of the significant direct impact vaccines have had, even in modern times. Are we expected to believe that better sanitation caused the incidence of each disease to drop, coincidentally, just at the time a vaccine for that disease was introduced?
Quote:
2. The majority of people getting disease have been fully immunized.

This is another argument frequently found in anti-vaccine literature - the implication being that this proves vaccines are not effective. In fact it is true that in outbreaks occurring in highly vaccinated populations, the cases who were immunized often outnumber those who were not - even with vaccines such as measles, which we know to be about 90% to 95% effective in one dose.

This apparent paradox is explained by two factors. First, no vaccine is 100% effective. To make vaccines safer than the disease, the bacteria or virus is killed or weakened (attenuated). For reasons related to the individual, not all persons vaccinated will develop immunity. Most routine childhood vaccines have efficacy in the 85-90% range. Therefore, over the years there is a buildup of susceptible individuals (each year contributing 10% -15% of its cohort). Second, in a country like Canada with high immunization coverage, people who have been vaccinated vastly outnumber those who have not.
Quote:
3. There are many case reports of harmful side effects from vaccines, including deaths. This proves that vaccines are not safe.

This is misleading because reports of adverse events are only suspicions that are temporally associated with receipt of vaccine; reports should not be interpreted to imply that the vaccine caused the event. Statistically, a certain number of serious illnesses, even deaths, can be expected to occur by chance alone among children recently vaccinated. While vaccines are known to cause minor, temporary side effects like soreness or fever, there is little, if any, evidence linking vaccination with permanent health problems or death. The point is that just because an adverse event has been reported, it does not mean it was caused by a vaccine. This fact is often, if not always overlooked by the media when adverse events are mentioned.
More at the website.
 
Old 04-21-2011, 12:45 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
37,170 posts, read 41,370,467 times
Reputation: 45256
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustJulia View Post
Well, I work for a health care company, but my more cynical side says that there's a good reason that an insurance company would encourage more doctor visits. Insurance companies are mostly for-profit organizations.

A lot of employers offer similar incentives to employees, because that does save them money. My husband's company gives all employees $200 a year to spend on health-related items like gym membership, equipment or sports gear. Mine gives gift cards for completing various tasks each year, like filling out a health risk assessment form and visiting the doctor.

Insurance companies do all they can to discourage doctor visits. It increases their bottom line. Many are offering incentives such as the those that your and your husband's companies do.

And each vaccine has to be evaluated for cost effectiveness. No one will want to pay for it if the cost of the vaccine exceeds the cost of treating the disease it is designed to prevent.

See here:

Arch Pediatr Adolesc Med -- Economic Evaluation of the 7-Vaccine Routine Childhood Immunization Schedule in the United States, 2001, December 2005, Zhou et al. 159 (12): 1136

Vaccines are cost effective, and insurance companies will save money if their participants are fully vaccinated.
 
Old 04-21-2011, 02:18 PM
 
5,644 posts, read 13,242,682 times
Reputation: 14170
Quote:
Originally Posted by abroughten View Post
Really???? You don't think that you are going a little overboard?? You can't live your life in a bubble. Do you go around the mall or the school and ask each child if they are vaccinated??? You could catch a disease from someone who is vaccinated. THEN WHAT????
You are a mean person for saying what you just said. You have the right to choose vaccinations and I have the right to choose not to vaccinate! PERIOD.
You apparently want your children to live in a bubble..without the protection of vaccines they probably should.

Yes, my children could catch a vaccine preventable illness from a vaccinated child. It is much more likely that disease will come from an unvaccinated child like yours however. FACT

You do have the right to choose not to vaccinate.....just make sure you also choose to keep your little bundle of diseases out of the schools....

Better yet...why not travel to a third world country where many vaccine preventable illnesses still KILL children at an alarmingly high rate??

How comfortable would you be NOT vaccinating in THAT environment??

You and your ilk (ill informed antivaxers) are only comfortable with your decision NOT to vaccinate because you count on the herd immunity afforded by the vast majority of the population in this country that DO love their children enough to vaccinate them.

Show the courage of your convictions!!!

Don't vaccinate your children and send them to a country with endemic diseases that have been eradicated in this country by mass vaccination!!

If you aren't willing to do that then stop acting like you made some courageous informed decision...you haven't
 
Old 04-21-2011, 02:33 PM
 
24 posts, read 22,123 times
Reputation: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
I did not tell you how you should live your life and your child's. I wasn't repsonding to you b/c you hadn't posted yet.

Your comments about homeopathic remedies really made me smile. A principle of homeopathy is "like cures like". That is exactly what vaccination is! Vaccines have a small dose of the disease organism (or in some cases toxin produced by the organism), and that stimulates your immune system to make antibodies. There is no better way for your body to work for you to protect you from illness.
I do understand how a vaccination is made and how it works. Thanks. The difference between homeopathy and vaccinations is that there are not a bunch of toxins in homeopathic remedies the way there are in vaccines. Take the toxins out of the vaccines and I will gladly vaccinate my child!
 
Old 04-21-2011, 02:38 PM
 
24 posts, read 22,123 times
Reputation: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustJulia View Post
I agree with you. I will absolutely stand up for your right to choose to decline medical procedures such as vaccines. However, I am also leaning toward barring unvaccinated kids from public schools. I haven't fully made up my mind, but it does seem to me that if you wish to opt out of the public health system, you should also opt out of the services it was designed to support. The more I know about herd immunity makes me feel that unvaccinated kids would be better off at home.

My kids are vaccinated and healthy as horses. The "I know a kid who" isn't the strongest argument--we all "know kids who" are one way or another.
Haha..yes keep the kids at home..great idea. My son doesn't go to public school. So I have 'opted out of the services it was designed to support'
 
Old 04-21-2011, 02:39 PM
 
Location: Eastwood, Orlando FL
1,260 posts, read 1,691,245 times
Reputation: 1421
I wonder which toxins killed more people annually, Diptheria Pertussis and Tetanus or the DPT vaccine?.. I wonder.....
 
Old 04-21-2011, 02:49 PM
 
Location: Geneva, IL
12,980 posts, read 14,585,614 times
Reputation: 14863
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedevilz View Post
Show the courage of your convictions!!!

Don't vaccinate your children and send them to a country with endemic diseases that have been eradicated in this country by mass vaccination!!

If you aren't willing to do that then stop acting like you made some courageous informed decision...you haven't
That's an excellent suggestion.
 
Old 04-21-2011, 02:50 PM
 
Location: In a house
13,250 posts, read 42,825,924 times
Reputation: 20198
Quote:
Originally Posted by JennyMominRI View Post
I wonder which toxins killed more people annually, Diptheria Pertussis and Tetanus or the DPT vaccine?.. I wonder.....
Most people who DON'T die annually to diptheria, pertussis, and tetanus, were vaccinated with the DPT shot. Imagine that. A vaccine that exists to prevent disease. Who woulda thunk.
 
Old 04-21-2011, 02:59 PM
 
24 posts, read 22,123 times
Reputation: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedevilz View Post
You apparently want your children to live in a bubble..without the protection of vaccines they probably should.

Yes, my children could catch a vaccine preventable illness from a vaccinated child. It is much more likely that disease will come from an unvaccinated child like yours however. FACT

You do have the right to choose not to vaccinate.....just make sure you also choose to keep your little bundle of diseases out of the schools....

Better yet...why not travel to a third world country where many vaccine preventable illnesses still KILL children at an alarmingly high rate??

How comfortable would you be NOT vaccinating in THAT environment??

You and your ilk (ill informed antivaxers) are only comfortable with your decision NOT to vaccinate because you count on the herd immunity afforded by the vast majority of the population in this country that DO love their children enough to vaccinate them.

Show the courage of your convictions!!!

Don't vaccinate your children and send them to a country with endemic diseases that have been eradicated in this country by mass vaccination!!

If you aren't willing to do that then stop acting like you made some courageous informed decision...you haven't
I have never said anything about being courageous. I am not an 'ill informed antivaxer' I am a very informed mother who loves her son very much and you can blow all the hot air you want about me sending my child to a 3rd world country to see if he will die from a disease.
I do NOT count on the community to keep my child from becoming sick. I have actually never even thought of that before. I have not heard most of these terms that are used in this forum. I was actually on this site about a real estate forum and wound up checking this out.
My child is not a 'bundle of diseases' That is a ridiculous assumption on your part. I also do not believe there is a government conspiracy around vaccinations. I'm not sure if it was you who said 'ant vaxers' think there is a conspiracy.
I am curious what you would do if you found out that one of your best friends or one of your childs best friends was not vaccinated?? Would you mo longer be friends with them? Just curious!
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