Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
So, if my daughter said "S can't run fast because she is overweight" would that be fine? Is it the observation or the word?
I guess I don't see why there is a need to qualify why someone else can't do something. "Why not just say S doesn't run very fast" and leave it at that?
As a fat person, I'll tell you that the words used to single someone out don't matter as much as the fact that the person is being singled out. Chubby, chunky, heavy, thick, plump, round, solid, etc. all pretty much mean the same. It's more about your attitude toward fat people. My mother makes no secret of the fact that she thinks fat people are lazy, dumb, and slow. (my sisters and I and my father are all fat) When one of us can't find a job, she says it's because nobody wants to hire someone who looks lazy and sloppy. Sometimes I catch myself telling my kids to watch what they eat because nobody likes a fat woman
Many people who won't use racist terms or make fun of disabled people think it's acceptable to make fun of fat people. Sometimes you hear it from little kids, and you know it's because their mothers are saying it behind your back.
So no, the word fat is not a bad word. But a parent teaching their kids to make fun of fat people is a bad thing.
I find your post interesting, because it makes me wonder if it's really being singled out that's the problem, or the reason for it. At work, I am the only black person there and I don't know how many times I've been referred to as "the black lady." Same for any number of other situations. It's never bothered me, I AM black, and while some might have a problem with it, I sure don't. I think being called "the fat lady" instead would be more hurtful only because the way it was said, not in the fact of being overweight, unless I was self conscious about it. I think that people use "fat" as an insult and not just an observation, which is how it becomes offensive.
Parents should teach their kids that people come in all shapes, sizes, and colors and there's nothing wrong with any of them. When the parents themselves have some sort of disdain for overweight people or anyone else, that's where you have kids making rude comments.
I remember recounting in a post (not in this forum but in the diet and weight loss forum on a thread about whether skinny was an insult or compliment), how I recall when I was a little kid, I was once scolded for describing someone as "fat" despite not meaning it maliciously or with any intent to insult (asking if for example, what does Joe, look like -- was he fat or skinny?). The teacher scolded me at that age for calling someone fat, but when I described someone as skinny (or say, tall or short etc.) it was okay. I remember that day learning the associations attached to certain words.
Some people have noted in the thread and others have expressed the idea of double standards regarding calling someone fat or skinny. Whether you agree with it or not, it's an overwhelming unspoken rule that fat is not used positively (perhaps in for example another country maybe) by connotation, but skinny can be used positively, negatively, or neutrally depending on who you ask.
The example is like my situation above -- if you want to describe someone without any intent of making good or bad judgement you can say something like "Chris is the skinny guy with the blue shirt" or "Sally's the slim girl sitting on the bench" and still have it fly with little comment but you can not say "Chris is the fat guy on the bench" or "Sally's the chubby girl in the blue shirt" etc. without having it be received as wholly negative even if you intended no judgement. You can only avoid talking about that aspect of appearance at all.
There is no word it seems that fits the meaning "opposite of skinny" as an adjective to be used in a neutral way (without ill-will) to describe one's appearance. There's no word for (healthy but fatter than normal) that fits the same non-negative (healthy but skinnier than normal by the same amount).
Now, I'm not one that cares to comment much of the time on this stuff in general, but What do you think?
I guess I don't see why there is a need to qualify why someone else can't do something. "Why not just say S doesn't run very fast" and leave it at that?
Yah... but... it depends on what the purpose of the communication is. If the children are talking among themselves, one needn't call out another's overweight. But if I am talking candidly with my kids, I might want them to know the down sides to overweight. In the name of honesty, I would tell them the reason why Suzie Q doesn't run. I would remind him or her that it would be unkind to call that out. But you betcha I would use that as a teachable moment.
My daughter wasn't using it to make fun or anything though. I don't think she has any negative associations with people being overweight at this point in her life. To her, people have different kinds of bodies. Some have light skin, others dark; some have brown hair, others blonde; some are fat/overweight/bigger, some are thinner; some are tall, others short, etc. I feel like by telling her not to say fat specifically, that this is telling her that there is something wrong with being fat.
In our house we have a rule about that you don't use "gay" as an insult. It doesn't mean that you can't say gay at all when it is applicable, as in "KB's parents are gay", but you don't say "oh, that thing is so gay" to mean that you don't like it. (This is a rule that I have to institute more with grandparents/extended family in our house rather than with my kids) I guess I was trying to go in a similar direction with fat. Because when you use the word as an insult, that says that there is something wrong with you if you if that word does describe you.
And I am sympathetic to the "retarded" analogy. My 3yo has borderline "intellectual disability", which is what they call mental retardation nowadays. When you say retarded in the appropriate context, I don't have a problem with that. It's when you use it as an insult that I do.
I think most of us get that she was not being mean when she used that descriptor but I bet it would hurt whoever she's using the word to describe. That's why it should not be used. Gay is not really the same thing because last I checked it doesn't hurt a gay person's feelings to be called gay. It may hurt their feelings if it was used as an insult around them but using it in it's normal context does not. I can't think of any situation where calling someone fat would not hurt their feelings.
As a fat person, I'll tell you that the words used to single someone out don't matter as much as the fact that the person is being singled out. Chubby, chunky, heavy, thick, plump, round, solid, etc. all pretty much mean the same. It's more about your attitude toward fat people. My mother makes no secret of the fact that she thinks fat people are lazy, dumb, and slow. (my sisters and I and my father are all fat) When one of us can't find a job, she says it's because nobody wants to hire someone who looks lazy and sloppy. Sometimes I catch myself telling my kids to watch what they eat because nobody likes a fat woman
Many people who won't use racist terms or make fun of disabled people think it's acceptable to make fun of fat people. Sometimes you hear it from little kids, and you know it's because their mothers are saying it behind your back.
So no, the word fat is not a bad word. But a parent teaching their kids to make fun of fat people is a bad thing.
I'm so sorry your mother is that way. Mine is too. She can't see anyone, who is overweight, without making derogatory remarks about them. She automatically assumes they don't care about their appearance, eats like pigs, sits around all day, are sloppy, and flat out lazy. It's funny too, because she makes those comments out of pure ignorance. You see, she's the kind of person who has always been able to eat whatever she wants, as much as she wants, any kind of food that she wants, and she never gains a pound.
My almost 6yo daughter has a little blister between her toes that is bothering her, and today she has gym class, and was saying that she could do gym but would just run slowly. Like her friend S. S can't run very fast because she is fat.
And my husband was all: "Don't say people are fat. It's not nice." etc.
I'm more inclined to say "Don't use fat as an insult" rather than "Don't say fat at all".
She was just making an observation about her friend. And it is true. And she was saying it at home, to us, not at school in front of her friend. I'm afraid if we stigmatize the word fat so much that we can't say it, we make it out like being fat is such a terrible thing. Right now, for her it is just another descriptor, like being tall or having blonde hair.
What do you teach your kids about using the word "fat"?
I don't think it's a bad word at all. But then again, I'm not "PC" in the least. If someone is fat, they are fat, just like if someone is black, they are black, or if they are Jewish, they are Jewish. It's a way to describe someone.
You ever listen to police scanners (or is that just a Southern small town thing?)? When they are looking for some one, they will use all sorts of descriptors in the search. And yes, fat is one of them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gimme it
Sadly, my daughter tells me that her overweight friend constantly talks about her weight issues and how she wished she wasnt' so fat. She seems to be her worst critic and calls herself fat. The other kids don't dare mention it. It's heartbreaking.
That is sad. The kiddo has a friend like that too. Sweetest girl ever, and usually doesn't get picked on too much thankfully. I think the lack of bullying is due to her size though. She's right at 12, and 5'5" and about 170. Her Mom is a big person too, and right at 6 foot tall.
As a fat person, I'll tell you that the words used to single someone out don't matter as much as the fact that the person is being singled out. Chubby, chunky, heavy, thick, plump, round, solid, etc. all pretty much mean the same. It's more about your attitude toward fat people. My mother makes no secret of the fact that she thinks fat people are lazy, dumb, and slow. (my sisters and I and my father are all fat) When one of us can't find a job, she says it's because nobody wants to hire someone who looks lazy and sloppy. Sometimes I catch myself telling my kids to watch what they eat because nobody likes a fat woman
That is sad. I am sorry.
Quote:
Many people who won't use racist terms or make fun of disabled people think it's acceptable to make fun of fat people. Sometimes you hear it from little kids, and you know it's because their mothers are saying it behind your back.
For better or for worse, for some people the difference is choice. One cannot choose not to be black or disabled. You will get a lot of disagreement on this point, but many people think that overweight is a choice, or really not being overweight is a choice. And therefore making fun of it is therefore ok.
Quote:
So no, the word fat is not a bad word. But a parent teaching their kids to make fun of fat people is a bad thing.
Making fun of someone is always mean, regardless of what you are making fun of. Or really hurting someone is.
My almost 6yo daughter has a little blister between her toes that is bothering her, and today she has gym class, and was saying that she could do gym but would just run slowly. Like her friend S. S can't run very fast because she is fat.
And my husband was all: "Don't say people are fat. It's not nice." etc.
I'm more inclined to say "Don't use fat as an insult" rather than "Don't say fat at all".
She was just making an observation about her friend. And it is true. And she was saying it at home, to us, not at school in front of her friend. I'm afraid if we stigmatize the word fat so much that we can't say it, we make it out like being fat is such a terrible thing. Right now, for her it is just another descriptor, like being tall or having blonde hair.
What do you teach your kids about using the word "fat"?
This is interesting. I had a writing workshop teacher once who was very fat--she had to be over 300 pounds, and she made it a point to use the word "fat" to describe herself. She wrote about fat people and how society views them and how they view themselves.
I am not sure her use of the term and her insights will ever catch on, but I just thought I'd throw it out there to let people know that some people DO see fat as a descriptor, just as your daughter does.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
