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I guess some folks actually plan kids? Interesting. If I waited to have them when I could afford them...I would have never had them.
But, I do think people need to do some serious thinking about lifestyle when contemplating family size. A second kid does not really cost that much more....but add the thrid and fourth child....that is some serious cash. A bigger car, for sure. No more eating out. Flying across country becomes different too....six plane tickets...a serious outlay of cash. Day care costs...and braces!
So....one or two...no big deal. More.....that is where you start to think...
Nope--they're two different things. One comes across as defensive and wishy-washy. The other is more direct. One gives false hope: it implies things could change if the conditions are right. The other implies your mind is already made up/decided.
Perhaps I'm just a more direct person, but people should just say what they mean, leaving no room for interpretation.
I am kind of wondering why people should have to explain to you (or anyone else) why they aren't having children.
Nope--they're two different things. One comes across as defensive and wishy-washy. The other is more direct. One gives false hope: it implies things could change if the conditions are right. The other implies your mind is already made up/decided.
Perhaps I'm just a more direct person, but people should just say what they mean, leaving no room for interpretation.
It is not two different things. The end result is the same: they're saying they don't want kids. Of course things happen or doesn't happen where it doesn't quite jive with the original statement/intent of not wanting kids-- Life happens.
If its perfectly fine for anyone not to want kids, then why do they have to refine their "excuse" for you? Unless they are your potential mate, why do they have to clarify their biological intentions?
I guess some folks actually plan kids? Interesting. If I waited to have them when I could afford them...I would have never had them.
But, I do think people need to do some serious thinking about lifestyle when contemplating family size. A second kid does not really cost that much more....but add the thrid and fourth child....that is some serious cash. A bigger car, for sure. No more eating out. Flying across country becomes different too....six plane tickets...a serious outlay of cash. Day care costs...and braces!
So....one or two...no big deal. More.....that is where you start to think...
I agree with this. I'd say for most families, having 3 or more kids would mean child care would cost more than one parent earns. For some, one kid would do that, but hopefully what I'm trying to say makes sense. If we had 4 kids instead of 2, we'd be living a different life style.
People can want children but decide they want to be able to give their children something. If you can afford a $300 shabby apartment in a high crime area of town, and barely enough food to eat, you might not want to have them until you can do better for them.
If you have a bunch of kids but can never take them even on a camping trip, or provide them safe daycare, or have a home with a yard they can play in, or afford books and basic toys, and dress them in rags, then why have them? If you're barely making ends meet, and you feel kids need a little more than a bare mattress on the floor to sleep on, day old bread with bologna, never a meal out or a family trip and that's all you want to give them then you can afford kids on very little.
That doesn't mean kids have to have fine furniture or iPhones and all the latest video games and nothing but the most expensive clothes. They don't even need trips to Disneyland and vacation cruises. It's certainly nice to grow up with a yard to play in, some trees to climb, horses to ride, summer vacation trips -- especially affordable camping trips, experience at least a ride in a boat now and then, and clothes that don't make you feel like a pauper.
This. It's entirely possible to want children but choose not to have them because doing so would put your family in a financial situation that you don't want your child to have to deal with.
People can want children but decide they want to be able to give their children something. If you can afford a $300 shabby apartment in a high crime area of town, and barely enough food to eat, you might not want to have them until you can do better for them.
If you have a bunch of kids but can never take them even on a camping trip, or provide them safe daycare, or have a home with a yard they can play in, or afford books and basic toys, and dress them in rags, then why have them? If you're barely making ends meet, and you feel kids need a little more than a bare mattress on the floor to sleep on, day old bread with bologna, never a meal out or a family trip and that's all you want to give them then you can afford kids on very little.
That doesn't mean kids have to have fine furniture or iPhones and all the latest video games and nothing but the most expensive clothes. They don't even need trips to Disneyland and vacation cruises. It's certainly nice to grow up with a yard to play in, some trees to climb, horses to ride, summer vacation trips -- especially affordable camping trips, experience at least a ride in a boat now and then, and clothes that don't make you feel like a pauper.
I agree. But more importantly it's certainly nice to grow up with enough food to eat ---- and a lot of poor kids in America don't.
Also, each year about 1.5 million American children are homeless .
As we should all have learned over the last 4 years, circumstances change. A lot of people who were once middle class and could "afford" kids, now can't.
What most toss out in the garbage can feed two kids- Those who say they can not afford kids just don't really want them- or they have high expectations that are not realistic in a material way. People have been having kids for thousands of years...Few could "afford" them- but they had them and we are here...You want kids- have them- It will all work out.
What most toss out in the garbage can feed two kids- Those who say they can not afford kids just don't really want them- or they have high expectations that are not realistic in a material way. People have been having kids for thousands of years...Few could "afford" them- but they had them and we are here...You want kids- have them- It will all work out.
Yeah as long as you have food stamps ---- 47 million Americans are on them, a lot of them women and children.
A lot of these people are single but a lot of them are also families. So obviously it doesn't always work out so well. Especially in these times.
[Oleg, with no food stamp program, what do poor families in Canada do? ---]
Ever hear people say this? I've thought about this and it doesn't make sense. It might seem reasonable, but it's actually flawed reasoning: It implies you need to be at a certain financial level to have them, which clearly isn't the case. You have people making well over six figures that "can't afford children," yet people with less than half their salary that somehow make it work--and aren't at or poverty level, for that matter. And while you may argue the cost of living, this happens even in the most expensive parts of the country.
You may argue each kid cost X to put on your insurance, while childcare cost Y, and "expenses" total to Z, rationalizing the need to save. While that's noble, the reality is, if you want kids and think you can't afford it now, you're never really going to. How much can you factor is "necessary" when there's no set number, when inflation implies you'll have to keep saving, because it still won't be "enough" after next year? While there is certainly some planning needed in having children, it's easy to take the planning overboard. It becomes a never-ending pursuit of perfection, that you may never reach. And even if you come close, life happens. All that money you saved could end up being used to recover from an unexpected emergency/accident. You could have had a great job yesterday, only to lose it today/have your hours reduced, and find out tomorrow your wife is pregnant (with twins even). How often do things turn out as planned, especially with parenthood?
I'm convinced the people who say this really mean, they won't be able to maintain their current lifestyle, which they love; and/or won't be able to have the lifestyle they want or find most ideal, after having them. I'm convinced if one truly wants something bad enough, they'll make it work for them, and perhaps in the process all those "necessities" really aren't necessary after all.
I'm not suggesting everyone has to have kids, as that is a personal preference. But can't some people just admit they just don't want kids (now or ever); recognize their lives will change and aren't willing to prepare for it (now or ever); won't be as well off as they'd like; or may struggle somewhat, instead of using the excuse they "can't afford them"? Are people ashamed they'll seem selfish for admitting any of this? I certainly see nothing wrong with admitting any of that. For the record, I'd rather people admit they don't want children than to have them simply out of obligation.
You must not have kids.
Some people want to send their kids to college, not have them graduate 50K in debt.
Some people want to have enough savings and equity to know that their children will always have a roof over their heads - in a safe neighborhood with good schools.
Some people want to be financially stable enough that they know they afford to take care of any emergencies that come up, like medical problems.
Some people even want to make sure they can give their children more than they had - things like a backyard, a mom who doesn't work 60 hours a week and sleep the rest, trips to Disney, nice clothing, medical insurance, a dog, whatever. There's nothing wrong with wanting to give children a certain lifestyle and waiting until you can do that to have them. There's also nothing worse than feeling like you can't afford to take good care of your children and give them the things that they want - necessity or no. Those of us who grew up with very little want a different life for our kids sometimes. I'm glad I waited, because now that I have kids, even though we are very stable financially and have a nice house with plenty of room, I still find it hard to afford all the things I want to give them, like private school and a bigger college fund. You really can't ever have enough money when you want to give someone everything. But certainly it's wise to wait until you can guarantee the necessities, like medical insurance and a safe place to live.
And you are wrong about someone losing their job and changing everything - if you are really financially secure you have enough to get through most things, including unemployment and death.
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