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But there is nothing to confirm that children (or other mammals' offspring) truly self-wean at all. Nothing in biology to suggest the child just doesn't want it anymore.
What is the difference between self weaning and just not wanting it anymore?
I'm not finding anything here about "self-weaning", except that they usually do so between 3 and 4 years of age. So if anything, it only confirms that every year past the age of 4 is... well, odd at best, and in actuality unnatural at worst.
I get that mammals show consistency in a rough time frame their offspring are usually weaned. But there is nothing to confirm that children (or other mammals' offspring) truly self-wean at all. Nothing in biology to suggest the child just doesn't want it anymore. It could very well be a product of socialization, is my point. So the whole concept of "self-weaning" isn't half as great as it sounds.
I don't understand why you think self-weaning is any different from other changes babies and children go through as they get older. Toddlers become stubborn and defiant, which is part of their becoming independent. Teenagers even more so. From the time we're born til the time we die everyone's needs change. Why do you think a person would nurse indefinitely when they don't use a diaper indefinitely, drink from a bottle indefinitely or eat pureed food indefinitely? Do you still run to your mother in tears if you skin your knee? Of course not. That's something you gave up as you got older. Kids give up BF'ing and drinking from a bottle as they get older too.
What is the difference between self weaning and just not wanting it anymore?
It's the "just" part I take issue with, I guess. Studying too much Psychology perhaps
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marlow
Why do you think a person would nurse indefinitely when they don't use a diaper indefinitely...
...Are you implying that using the toilet is a natural instinct?
ETA: Ooh! What about when a nursing mother kind of has an exasperated look on her face or verbally shows discomfort or the occasional unwillingness to feed? Might that discourage the child? Hmmmmm...
I thought my boy had decided he was done at about 9 months, but upon further research, I think it was a nursing strike. We would have nursed at least 18 months I think.
Anyway, I think that so many arguments against extended breastfeeding at slighty ridiculous.
1- That we are ignoring the sexual connotation of breasts. But breasts have a primary and secondary function. Primary- nourishment and comfort for children. Secondary- sexual. Primary is far more important and we need to be teaching our burgeoning little sexual beings in our households that breasts are not there for their leering pleasure.
2- That the WHO makes the recommendations of extended breastfeeding for cultures where nutrition is a problem. The World Health Organization gears their recommendations to all cultures, and while impoverished countries may have a need for longer breastfeeding for nutritional needs, the WHO doesnt separate between malnourished children and the world children population. All children can benefit from extended breastfeeding.
3- Its unnatural. While nursing until 4,5,6 may be disstateful to some of you, heck, it dont think its the norm but it is a completely natural behavior. Children will only nurse until they dont need to anymore, whatever motivation fuels that need. Most people who practice extended breastfeeding do a "dont ask, dont refuse" stance after a certain point. If I dont encourage it, she/he has to really want to nurse, and have a biological drive to nurse. If they ask for it, then fine. Eventually they will stop asking, usually around 3 or 4 but that doesnt mean that doing it longer is unnatural.
4- Finally the worst and most flawed argument for anything in history- We dont have to do that anymore because technology has given us an alternative. This works in examples like we dont have to spend all day baking bread, because we can buy it at the store. Breastfeeding, when possible, is still the best option. Formula is an amazing nutritional replacement when the desire or means to breastfeed is not there but for women who can and do want to, telling them that they shouldnt because its gross or unnatural or they dont have to because formula is just as good is doing them and their children an injustice.
Well, a parent who decides when it's time to stop weaning their child shouldn't do so abruptly. And no, it shouldn't be a rigid "This is how it's gonna be" sort of mentality that guides it along. But there's a gray area, and I think you know it. "Self-weaning" sounds more honorable than it is, imo. If socialization plays a role, it's not simply that the child led the weaning or decided on it all on their own. What about encouraging a child to take a sippy cup every now and then while you are still on a breastfeeding routine? Would that be letting your child "self-wean" or would it be the parent trying to wean them?
I don't guess it's all that important though. I just smile when I hear that someone let their child "self-wean" instead of actively weaning them themselves, because I don't believe it's so black and white.
Hmmm, ok, I don't think of the term "self-weaning" to be all-or-none; there are gray areas in everything in life, IMO. This seems like an awful lot of kerfuffle over terminology to me. I have no idea why the term would have connotations of honor. ETA2: I am beginning to wonder if this is similar to your dislike of the term "MYOB."
As for sippy cups while still nursing - we just introduced a sippy cup at meals to my 7 month old. She is still nursing at other times. As she transitions to a greater amount of solids, the frequency of her breastfeeding will decrease as she will have decreased biological need for it. I am not purposefully trying to wean her at this point, although I am purposefully trying to help her acquire the developmental skill of drinking from a cup, as well as consuming solid food. If that results in her nursing less, well okey-doke.
ETA: Since you are studying too much psychology, by your own admission, may I suggest looking at some of the more behavioral paradigms? "Want" is a very fuzzy construct, unless you operationally define it.
Last edited by eastwesteastagain; 05-14-2012 at 09:15 AM..
It's the "just" part I take issue with, I guess. Studying too much Psychology perhaps
...Are you implying that using the toilet is a natural instinct?
I'm implying that most kids, left to their own devices, would eventually start finding a place to squat, rather than letting poop and pee run down their legs. The fact that parents teach them to go in a toilet is not short-circuiting some act of nature--it's just teaching them to use the same convenient spot we all use.
My point is that people clearly give up the habits, or the things they do as necessities, that they have or do as infants. Why do you think BF'ing is any different?
It's the "just" part I take issue with, I guess. Studying too much Psychology perhaps
...Are you implying that using the toilet is a natural instinct?
From my experience, which I actually have a bit off, if a parent never actually moves toward trying to train their child to use the potty they will eventually do it on their own. As they grow, bladder control becomes possible so even if they did where a diaper, they would have to make a conscious effort to soil their diaper.
My point is that people clearly give up the habits they acquire as infants. Why do you think BF'ing is any different?
I don't think it's different. I think pretty much everything that isn't essential to survival or in some inherent way better is taught by parents or society as a whole.
I practice child-led weaning. My older daughter nursed only once or twice per day for years, sometimes going for a week or two between nursing. When she was about 4.5 years old she noticed that she no longer knew how to get milk while she was nursing. It was like she forgot how to suck properly. If she nursed in tandem with her sister, she could get milk because her sister created the letdown, but she couldn't do it by herself. Within about 6 weeks of this observation, she nursed for the last time, though she didn't consider herself actually weaned until her 5th birthday. Now she is 6, and she tells me that she knows that she used to nurse, but she doesn't remember actually doing it anymore. My youngest is 3 and still nursing, usually once or twice per day. I plan to let her self-wean as well.
Also, maybe the kids in our town are especially nice, but neither of my kids has been teased at school about nursing (yes, my kids go to daycare and school while I work FT and are not attached at my hip 24/7).
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