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Not true at all....care to back that up with some actual proof? I live in what has been the lowest health insurance premium state for years and I have NEVER seen a plan with premiums that low with a $5000 deductible. Plans with a deductible that low are in the $120 range...
Try this, go live in a low tax state and try to get social services or attend their schools...places like Alabama or Mississippi...then go do the same in MA, MN, both high tax states..and then come back and tell us how much of a crock the concept is....
People are also forgetting that insurance has ALWAYS worked this way. It's not a new concept to the ACA. The risk has ALWAYS been spread out between the healthy and the sick and everyone in between..young or old....
if you want to tell me you pay 120 Ill take your word for it. I know when I lived in Nevada a few years ago I payed 55 dollars a month and had a 3500 dollar deductable which later went up to 5000 for the same rate. Out of curiosity I looked at a bunch of other states online back then and most of them had similar plans for the same amount.then when I moved back to NY I was paying about 450 dollars a month for a slightly worse plan.
I just checked ehealthinsurance and the cheapest plan they have on there is 175 dollars a month because of the aca. I asked my friend who still lives there, is a year younger than me and is on the same plan I had and he says he currently pays 88 dollars a month for it.Of course on January 1st that's gonna double.
no insurance health or otherwise has not always worked this way
if you want to call a healthy young person who has a low premium and an old unhealthy obese smoker who pays a high premium spreading the risk that's fine.the risk before the aca in most states was spread out fairly.
as for state taxes- some places with high taxes have great services,some have terrible services. some with no or low taxes have great services. all states don't use income/sales/property taxes with anything resembling equal efficiency. california has an extremely high state tax, tons of money hemorrhaging ridiculous social programs and they're broke. it's a nice place to live if you're broke or don't work and it's a terrible place to live if you have a decent job bc the services you get are a joke. Ill take your word on MN and MA. some things like schools roads etc vary drastically within a state and even within a city.
if you want to tell me you pay 120 Ill take your word for it. I know when I lived in Nevada a few years ago I payed 55 dollars a month and had a 3500 dollar deductable which later went up to 5000 for the same rate. Out of curiosity I looked at a bunch of other states online back then and most of them had similar plans for the same amount.then when I moved back to NY I was paying about 450 dollars a month for a slightly worse plan.
I just checked ehealthinsurance and the cheapest plan they have on there is 175 dollars a month because of the aca. I asked my friend who still lives there, is a year younger than me and is on the same plan I had and he says he currently pays 88 dollars a month for it.Of course on January 1st that's gonna double.
no insurance health or otherwise has not always worked this way
if you want to call a healthy young person who has a low premium and an old unhealthy obese smoker who pays a high premium spreading the risk that's fine.the risk before the aca in most states was spread out fairly.
as for state taxes- some places with high taxes have great services,some have terrible services. some with no or low taxes have great services. all states don't use income/sales/property taxes with anything resembling equal efficiency. california has an extremely high state tax, tons of money hemorrhaging ridiculous social programs and they're broke. it's a nice place to live if you're broke or don't work and it's a terrible place to live if you have a decent job bc the services you get are a joke. Ill take your word on MN and MA. some things like schools roads etc vary drastically within a state and even within a city.
Deductible or out of pocket max....there is a difference. Sure, deductibles in the 5K range, but your out of pocket max is higher I'm sure! As for the tax base in a state, it most certainly does make a difference. Yes, CA has issues, but those relate more to other problems there....
No not because I said no, I didn't invent insurance- insurance companies and actuaries say so.
I can assure you that actuaries have nothing to do with how much of the cost of the pool is reflected in the premiums of affluent people versus less affluent people, or how much the cost of the pool is reflected in the premiums of high risk subscribers versus low risk subscribers. Actuaries come up with formulas, so that whatever rates are arrived at are going to cover the cost of the pool plus profit. Actuaries don't care if the costs are covered by higher premiums for some and lower premiums for others. They just care that the costs are covered from subscriber premiums from the pool, overall.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bxlefty23
When you take a young healthy person and charge them the same amount of money for insurance as an old unhealthy person you are merely stealing money from the young person and giving it to the old person.
No you're not. You have no legitimate basis for your concerns, so you're just making up nonsensical exhortations of "stealing" to try to make your pointless complaints seem like they have merit. They don't. The objectives of ACA are more important to society than your personal preferences. Society makes that determination through its established processes - not you. Live with it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bxlefty23
And if you think I'm just after my own selfish interests
It sure seems likely.
Since your comments degraded into raving, puerile vulgarity (similar to an anonymous direct message I received from a already-dereg'ed user overnight), it is clear that it would be best off not engaging you further in this discussion.
no mindlessly just taking it up the butt because that's what politicians tell you to do is absolutely pathetic
i don't need the govt telling me what i need.
i on my own chose to get health insurance a long time ago, but i chose to get a high deductable plan because i don't need insurance for bs like a cold. i need it in case something catastrophic happens.
my insurance in nys is already so high bc the govt doesnt let insurance companies discriminate based on health or age which is an absolute joke and i should be mad as hell about it.when someone is effectively stealing money from you then you should be mad.I'm not old and shouldnt have to pay more because some people are old. When i help someone old with there health insurance it should be when i help my grandparents out financially and not when the govt makes me.
You're are right that not all old people are sitting on fat pensions or paid off houses- I also have absolutely no idea what that has to do with screwing over young people with health insurance.
You don't need the government telling you what you need? You have it all mixed up. The government wants you not to dump your uninsured self onto the rest of us when you get sick or injured and need medical care that your insurance will not even cover. I don't want you stealing money from me for your $500,000 medical care that you wouldn't have if you didn't have the Obamacare. The government is trying to protect all of us from those who don't feel they ought to pay for insurance that will truly protect them from a catastrophy costing $100K or more.
Your high deductible plan doesn't have that coverage to pay for a young person's severe injuries after a car accident, sports injury, etc.
Why should the government "steal" money from people who never had kids and make them pay for public school taxes (which are, in my county where I come from, over $3,000 a year per family on top of the usual property taxes.) I will start talking like you! See how silly it is?
i was very specifically referring to young healthy people. could a 70 year chain smoke get those rates? of course not
some people on here and people in general really think insurance companies exist to pay their medical bills.
Well, what do you propose we all do when a young, healthy person with no catastrophic coverage (which is mandatory in all Obamacare insurances) has a terrible car accident, diving accident with paralysis, brain tumor (my friend's daughter died of one at age 20), aneurysm (my classmate died of one at age 24, seemed perfectly healthy), etc.? Who is going to pay for the medical care for cancer at age 34, with the old insurance that has no catastrophic coverage?
don't you have Medicaid after you blow through all your money?
That's the entire point! Medicaid is paid by: What? Guess who pays for Medicaid? You and I, the tax payers. And guess what else: Having been a medical social worker, let me tell you, you don't want to be on Medicaid. It sucks and you get far less reliable care. I could write a book about this.
I can assure you that actuaries have nothing to do with how much of the cost of the pool is reflected in the premiums of affluent people versus less affluent people, or how much the cost of the pool is reflected in the premiums of high risk subscribers versus low risk subscribers. Actuaries come up with formulas, so that whatever rates are arrived at are going to cover the cost of the pool plus profit. Actuaries don't care if the costs are covered by higher premiums for some and lower premiums for others. They just care that the costs are covered from subscriber premiums from the pool, overall.
No you're not. You have no legitimate basis for your concerns, so you're just making up nonsensical exhortations of "stealing" to try to make your pointless complaints seem like they have merit. They don't. The objectives of ACA are more important to society than your personal preferences. Society makes that determination through its established processes - not you. Live with it.
It sure seems likely.
Since your comments degraded into raving, puerile vulgarity (similar to an anonymous direct message I received from a already-dereg'ed user overnight), it is clear that it would be best off not engaging you further in this discussion.
wow your arguments are incredibly weak.
i pointed out that in ny i actually save a little money through the aca yet i still think it's a joke.how is that being selfish?
as for
Society makes that determination through its established processes - not you. Live with it.
160 years ago you would be telling black people to deal with being slaves.excuse me for not mindlessly agreeing with everything in society like you do.
and yes claiming something is insurance when it is merely a subsidy paid for by the tax payers as well as the people who have a low risk for expensive medical care.to think otherwise is ludicrous.
Well, what do you propose we all do when a young, healthy person with no catastrophic coverage (which is mandatory in all Obamacare insurances) has a terrible car accident, diving accident with paralysis, brain tumor (my friend's daughter died of one at age 20), aneurysm (my classmate died of one at age 24, seemed perfectly healthy), etc.? Who is going to pay for the medical care for cancer at age 34, with the old insurance that has no catastrophic coverage?
That's an interesting question, isn't it.
Considering Obamacare policies have increased the cost of health insurance that would pay for those things for young people considerably (for me it's 70% higher than my current similar insurance), what do you think the effect of Obamacare is going to be on healthy young people such as myself?
Do you think those of us who "gambled" before will rush hour and suddenly buy insurance that costs 70% more than it did last year? I don't.
Do you think some of us who did previously have health insurance may be priced out of the market by a 70% increase in cost and decide to gamble? I do.
Well, what do you propose we all do when a young, healthy person with no catastrophic coverage (which is mandatory in all Obamacare insurances) has a terrible car accident, diving accident with paralysis, brain tumor (my friend's daughter died of one at age 20), aneurysm (my classmate died of one at age 24, seemed perfectly healthy), etc.? Who is going to pay for the medical care for cancer at age 34, with the old insurance that has no catastrophic coverage?
unfortunately yes young people do occasionally do get brain tumors and into accident etc.
their insurance rates should be determine by their risk which includes things like their age and lifestyle.
what do you propose we do when the young person decides to just pay the fine instead of pay for health insurance when these things happen or when they miss their payments and get knocked off of their insurance?
if i could snap my fingers and everyone in the world could be healthy I would.if the govt actually wants to help people they would fine insurance company's tens of millions of dollars when they do things like deny claims that should be covered and pull company's lisesnes if it keeps up. but they won't actually do that because the insurance company's give them tons of money.instead these bought and paid for politicians buy votes with taxpayer money and through forcing young healthy people to subside old and or unhealthy people while giving the insurance companies even more business.
and what insurance on this planet didnt cover catasrophes before the aca?
Considering Obamacare policies have increased the cost of health insurance that would pay for those things for young people considerably (for me it's 70% higher than my current similar insurance), what do you think the effect of Obamacare is going to be on healthy young people such as myself?
Do you think those of us who "gambled" before will rush hour and suddenly buy insurance that costs 70% more than it did last year? I don't.
Do you think some of us who did previously have health insurance may be priced out of the market by a 70% increase in cost and decide to gamble? I do.
exactly
in almost every state the cost of insurance is going up for young people.
forcing them to subsidize old people is going to make even less of the pay for the insurance and just pay the ridiculous fine.so while im sure some people who don't make much money now will get insurance bc they will qualify for a govt subsidy, others will drop their insurance because their rates just skyrocketed, especially if they know that no matter what if they get a brain tumor, into a car accident etc the hospital will take care of them anyway at the tax payers expense.
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