Live the good life on $20k/year - retire in your 20s or 30s? (jobs, million)

[eddiehaskell]

Originally Posted by rdflk

You’ve already said and conceded that not everyone values their time as you do – so why go to the extreme of someone working 50-60 hours a week?

Compared to you – who doesn’t work at all – ANYone who works – even part time, 15 hours a week -- would have less time than you to do those things.

But just to be fair since you’ve made a concession I’ll make one, too. I’ll concede that not everyone making 100K would necessarily be saving more than you. I think they have a much, MUCH better shot at saving more than you do – and Lord knows I’d hope they WOULD, but it’s not guaranteed.

I don't consider 50-60 hours extreme AT ALL - especially for many higher paying salary based jobs.

- Wake up 1.5 hrs before work to shower, eat breakfast and allow 45 min to drive to work
- On the clock 45 hours
- 45 min drive home

That's a 56.25 hour work week.

And that's assuming all work related actions and thoughts cease to exist when you walk in the door. Do you need a hour nap everyday after work? Do you worry about anything at work when you get home? Do you have enough time to get everything done allowing for 8-9 hrs sleep and the ability to feel refreshed when you wake up? Do you spend time dreading going back to work? Do you have any aches and pains related to work? Wrist pain, headaches, lower back pain, neck pain?

It's not:
-- Try not having money for even your health insurance doctor visit or medication co-pays.
-- Try not having money to get a better lawyer instead of a public defender.
-- Try not having money to get out of town when a storm hits – like the poor people who didn’t have the money to get out of New Orleans when Katrina hit – and ended up stuck in the Dome.
-- And I suppose Christopher Reeve didn’t have more options than for his care (with the help of Robin Williams) -- than some poor veteran who’s severely disabled. It’s takes MONEY to get special beds and wheel chairs and make changes to a home to accommodate medical issues.
-- It takes money to afford private school so your kids doesn’t have to be stuck in a bad public school – or rely on a voucher or lottery to get out.

You REALLY don’t think it’s a given that having more money means having more power, freedom and options?
But you've already said that YOU would have more options and freedom than someone who doesn’t have your savings...that’s why you HAVE savings.....so you have the option to get that new roof, or fix your car.
I suppose Warren Buffet, Bill Gates, and Donald Trump don't have more options/freedom than we do?

Are there things that no amount of money can buy? Sure? Can money absolutely buy you a CURE for Alzheimers or cancer?NO. But it sure can buy more treatment options and better care in the meantime.

Practically 0% of us will have the money Gates or Buffet have.

As far as your list. The average person making $50k or even $100k has no more access to that stuff than me.

Doctor visits cost me $10. My out of pocket cost are capped at less than $1000.

Lawyer cost? Are you talking about facing 20 yrs in prison? This seems about as common as a lightning strike.

Very few people I know can afford or want to send their children to expensive private schools. Good private schools are what $20k/year per kid? You better make $150k/yr+ if that's the plan.

With these standards, 95% of the population should live in fear of never being prepared. Obviously, it's not healthy to live that way.

[rdflk]

Very few will ever get to the point where they can throw money at their problems. The illusion of this being possible certainly keeps the slaves working for their masters though.

I wouldn't say VERY few. Technically ANY amount of discretionary income could be 'thrown at a problem" -- depending on that that 'problem' is.

All over middle America people 'choose' to throw money at a 'problem' -- by paying someone to do their lawn, paint their house, fix their car so they don't have to....or to pay for their kid's private school, and resolve the problem of dealing with a bad school system.

What percentage of people have SOME amount of discretionary income? We could also use the figure of how many Americans save SOME amount of money, because technically any money left over that could be put into savings IS discretionary income, and at the person's discretion to spend or save.

I'd say MOST Americans have some amount - even if little -- disretionary income. and ALMOST ALL COULD have some if they made different -- or make that better/more responsible (although that sounds a bit more judgmental) -- spending and budget decisions.

[mathjak107]

yep any amount can be thrown at probleems if you have the cash. some will only be able to eliminate the smaller issues , others larger ones . the fact is whatever you can eliminate is not a problem anymore.

for some even the hot water heater going is a financial disaster. major car repair can be a nightmare, even new tires can suck food money away for some.

[rdflk]

You did a lot of spin -- but I notice you never said that what I said isn't true.

Practically 0% of us will have the money Gates or Buffet have.

And?......that has nothing to do with anything I said.

[mathjak107]

my lifetime goal i strived for was to be able to live better when retired than i did while working,saving and investing .

that was my reward for doing things as best as i could and meeting my goals . considering one can live longer in retirement than working years it can take quite a bit of dough to accomplish that.

as long as our health stays good we have some incredible trips planned including an african safari.

sure ,i could have pulled the plug along time ago on working but why? if i didn't have the money yet to live the way i wanted then i was willing to wait and do it right.

if i died first ,well dead is dead , who cares what i didn't get to do. .

life should be planned around what if i live. that means having the funds to live life like you want and it means making sure you optimized taking social security payments not based on what if i die but based on what if i live and even more important what if my spouse lives.

we are only here for one go around. the idea is to live the best darned lfe we can . for many that means having the money to provide that level of lifestyle they want.

to many underestimate just what that cost is for their lifestyle as low down on the sca

now in their older years instead of enjoying life had they planned better they are cleaning up aisle spills or greeting folks at the door.

my best friend sold his volvo dealership at age 50. retired and thought he had enough to sustain life for decades.

well that was on the back of an envelope and lifes zingers left them in danger of failing at age 70. he now drives car service every day trying to stay a float.

[rdflk]

And then you're just going to die anyway. What's the point? "Treatment options" and "better care in the meantime" for an incurable condition merely stave off the inevitable and potentially put you through greater amounts of suffering by keeping you alive longer.

...and could also EASE your pain until the end came

If you make it obvious that you're loaded with money, you become a "mark". People will beg off of you, and you are a much bigger target for crime such as the various types of theft.

Why even bring that up, not relevant to the discussion at hand. I think we were discussing the issue of options/freedom re time vs money, saving, etc.

Can you walk into the grocery store without being mobbed, photographed, etc? I'd bet that Donald Trump couldn't. Bill Gates probably couldn't either.

Given that they have the money to pay the owners to close the store so they could shop and not be mauled or bothered, I don't see that as being relevant. They do indeed still have that freedom -- because they can AFFORD it -- to shop unmolested.

It seems as if you're defensive about your career and lifestyle choice. No need to be. You're happy. More power to you.

[eddiehaskell]

Originally Posted by Three Wolves In Snow

I wonder, how much of that income do you use now? Does she live with you?

She does live with me. My expenses are actually a little lower than I have listed, but I could certainly make it without sharing utility cost.

I have seen those tiny houses...something you did not indicate in your original post. You should have been upfront about it if that's what you have. Some people are very happy with those types of houses, and it can work well for them. I don't need a house with three bedrooms, either. Hell, I only use my bedroom, bathroom, and kitchen. The only reason I am renting something that has two floors and two bedrooms, (and amazingly is only $100 more than other units I could find here), is to give my pets running around room.

Anyway, how much of your GF's money goes towards those vacations? You didn't mention that in your original post, either.

I don't have one, but I certainly wouldn't be opposed to living in about 500 sq ft. My house is 3br/2ba ranch. As far as vacations, she pays her way and I pay mine - we will share the cost of some things.

You aren't really painting the full picture here. It's not that they don't value those things, but they also value not having to worry about anything if it gets broken, damaged, obliterated, or ruined. As mathjak keeps saying, and I said earlier, one major event and your entire "savings" is wiped out. Sure, it could happen to anyone, except that it will happen to you a lot faster because you don't have as much savings.

Like most Americans, if a $100,000+ major catastrophe that requires a lump sum payment happens to me - I will chalk it up to bad luck. Nothing you can really do in that situation. 90% of us couldn't withstand such a blow.

Which is what I was fricken saying all along before your two little lap dogs jumped in and told me I was wrong. That is EXACTLY the point I've been trying to make this entire fricken time.

Haha. That was a mistake by me. I meant to type United States. I was referring to traveling in the US there. Hotel/food/entertainment cost make traveling in the US more than many other countries.

So in 13 years, you've only managed to save just under $50k...and you started with 20k...and you think that's a good plan? And what happened to starting out with 15k? Now it's start out with 20k?

That was hypothetical, but if one has $50k in liquid savings, they are doing very well. Remember, 75% of us can't afford to pay our bills for 6 months without a paycheck coming in.

I actually agree with you on this post. A LOT of expenses can be cut if you learn how to do...or should I say, are willing to do, some of your own yardwork, make your own soaps/laundry detergent, (it's unbelievable how easy that is), grow your own veggies, etc.

Yep, probably better too with less hard to pronounce chemicals.

Again, that has been my flippin' point the whole time. The way that you addressed your original post made it sound as if anyone making $10 an hour could do this. That's my fricken point!!!! And as I said earlier, SOME people may be able to pull this off, but this is not doable for the average person. We can't all live where you live and keep the prices where they are, now can we? And you even said yourself, it's very difficult to do this in North America.

I agree not everyone can do it, but some can. You can get ahead on $10/hr, but you have to want to.

You live in a very small home.
You don't really "do" anything.
While I agree most people are far too materialistic, what do you have besides clothes and obviously a computer? Or do you spend your entire days maintaining your low income lifestyle...because that really doesn't sound like freedom to me. It's still work. I could go sit in an office and make $50,000 a year, or I could sit outside in the hot arse sun weeding a huge veggie garden. Meh...too many eight legged demon spawn for me.
If something major happens...you're screwed.

My house isn't small
I do a lot of stuff - don't need a lot of money to do stuff.
I have all I need as far material possessions.
What major stuff do you have in mind?

[mathjak107]

it isn't the big stuff that eats up your money. it is all the soft costs that happen as i call them. it is all the little extras in life compounding just eroding your finances.

life always seems to be filled with unexpected emergencies, expenses and even helping out family members at times.

a financial plan with little cushioning and flexibility will eventually fail and crush under its own weight.

[rdflk]

Your initial post said

A modestly sized home of say 1000 sq ft

hate to burst your bubble, about "living the good life on $20k/year" but that's a small house.

[Three Wolves In Snow]

Originally Posted by eddiehaskell

What major stuff do you have in mind?

Well, here's one I've already been through in life. A bad car accident. Your car is totaled. You are injured. You rack up serious medical bills, you have to get a new car but of course, you don't get back what you put in, you only get the value of the car at that point in time, and it takes three years for arbitration to settle before you see a dime from the settlement on the accident that was not your fault.

If you are working for that 20k, (since you refuse to reveal what you do to get it, no one knows how to follow in your footsteps so they are going to have to work for their 20k....but if you're injured, you lose time off from work...yah, sure, you can get PIP...see what I said earlier about three years for settlement), how are you going to maintain your lifestyle?