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I should start a thread, I wonder how much people pay...100K does not sound that outlandish. 200K , sure. 100k is 25K/year. I suppose, when I look at it I always see out of state tuition.
What do you think is a reasonable cost of 1 year of education, Lowexpectations?
Thats already 100K/ 4year. Can people do it cheaper. Mind you I am only asking about expenses, not the actual debt.
I think your summary sums up some of the student loan problem. If the input idea of college is going away to stay on campus, being on a food plan, and a car as a necessity than the output is insane debt.
My experience was jaded because I did not go to college until I was 23. But I live(d) in a one bedroom, worked full time and did/do not have a car. My output as $48K in tuition and books paid in cash over 3 and 1/2 years at a in-state public university and no debt. Mind you I paid for my own food maybe another 3K a year and 14K to 15K a year in rent. So total spent in that 3 and half years would be (48+9+45)$103K rounded. And I went to school with kids who saw those typical life expenses as "college" and used student loans to fund car purchases and rent. There was even one guy on the GI bill who got $2600 a month from the military for 3 years on top of free tuition, he took out $30K in student loans to buy a new car and saw it as better than getting a car loan.
The summary you have was and has always been reserved for upper class and wealthy families. Our generation is suckered by our parents into believing that college experience is worth a lifetime of debt. While it's a nice dream that most well intentioned parents want their kids to enjoy, in reality it is not necessary and for most ends up not being worth it.
As a whole, college graduates are FAR better off than their non-collegiate peers. Obviously, for the vast majority of graduates the education (or connections made "partying" on Fraternity Row) paid off mightily.
In my opinion, the idea of student loans being this boogeyman is primarily due to 1) the proliferation of expensive online for-profit colleges; and 2) the promotion of the idea that EVERYONE should go to college
But the "traditional" path that good students from middle class families can go to good colleges and take out student loans to meet the difference--still works for many, many people.
Of course there are individual exceptions, and YMMV.
I once again agree with the guy with low expectations lol, I don't get it, he's apart of The MathJak Team and they have labeled me their number one enemy....yet....for the last couple of weeks we have been thinking alike
Tuition at $10k a year is a little high in my opinion, I think for a bachelor's degree you want to pay no more than $20k - $25k TOTAL out of pocket for tuition and books. Housing, food, car and transportation are personal expenses and not directly related to the ROI of the education investment.
If you don't have a trust fund, aren't Mitt Romney's child, and are coming from the bottom up, your plan for college completion and entry into the professional workforce should be the following:
- Graduate HS
- Enroll in your local Community College without a declared major yet and complete general education studies. During this time, I want you to research the market in terms of areas in DEMAND and the payscale of promotion such as what's the "starter" position in the industry and the pay, the entry level position requirements and pay, the experienced position requirements and pay, then the management level position and pay. Also during this time, use your HS diploma to get some low level job paying $9.00 - $12.00 per hour. Work full time at said job, go to Community College full time as well, and try to LIVE at home with parents for free if they let you. If you are POOR, or coming from a poor background, you should have a Pell Grant and that should pay for the majority (if not all) of the Community College per year.
- After you select a major and career path, and you complete Community College, transfer to a university on some type of scholarship or keep using the Pell Grant. If you have to take out loans, they should be very small. Complete the final two years of college WHILE finding the "starter" position for the industry you want to work in so you work in it for the final two years as well. Keep the $9 - $12 an hour job on part-time, and stay at home with Parents still. Yes, I know, you will be BUSTING your tail off but this is what's required.
- Graduate with no more than $5k - $10k in student loan debt, the 4 year degree, two years of experience, and SOME money saved from the $9 - $12 hour job you had over four years. Apply for the entry level positions, get the job, and continue the progression of your career
Not sure where you are from but here in Mass in-state tuition is $13K a year and growing by 8% a year. Also I'm not technically disagreeing with your point because we have a great CC to 4 year degree option where anyone who complete an associates degree with a 3.0 GPA or higher is almost guaranteed entry and reduced TUITION (tuition is highlighted because it's only $1K a year, "fees" are $12K). But to me we need to encourage people from lower and middle class backgrounds to go the 4 year route form day one.
I got an offer from a fortune 100 company at the beginning of my senior year and the main factor for employers is competitive work experience/internship. The most competitive internship usually recruit from 4 year campuses and do not extend opportunities to community college students. Also environment for most is key. 40 to 45 percent of students graduate from a typical 4 year university within 6 years. 10 to 15 percent of students graduate from a typical 2 year college within 4 years.
The biggest problem I see in my generation is kids from not bad but not great and pretty good backgrounds falling into an environment of comfortable low expectations.
George Bush was a disaster as a president but the best line he had was "the soft bigotry of low expectations".
Last edited by BostonAccountant; 10-08-2015 at 08:41 PM..
Something tells me that the quality of eduction you might receive at CC may not be at par with a reputable school..
I am sure there are lots of kids who go to school for a social experience, but its ridiculous to think that no one has aspirations , and its a big party, A kid who thinks life is a joke and wastes his time through college has got whats coming to him..
I am more interested in the kid, and I am sure there are lots of them on CD and elsewhere who go to college as a means to break free from the conditions of their parents life. To do better for themselves, and for their family, surely there are kids who go to college for that reasons.
That kind of aspirational social mobility that schools can bring may not be as cheap as you think.
As someone said, its well established that graduates earn more than non-graduates, and I will bet that a STEM -graduate earns a lot more too.
There is great value in going to a good school/ an exceptional school. Most of them are expensive in the US. Can you make it by going to a not so great school, but a demanding and challenging program. Yes, I think so. But the pedigree of a good education is not a conspiracy theory..
At a good school, you will be surrounded by others you are exceptional and will push and inspire you.
I should start a thread, I wonder how much people pay...100K does not sound that outlandish. 200K , sure. 100k is 25K/year. I suppose, when I look at it I always see out of state tuition.
What do you think is a reasonable cost of 1 year of education, Lowexpectations?
Thats already 100K/ 4year. Can people do it cheaper. Mind you I am only asking about expenses, not the actual debt.
My alma mater posts an estimated expense total of 25-30k per year for in-state students who live on campus on their website. This DOES NOT include any sort of car/transportation, just tuition, books, room/board and food.
When I was in school 8 years ago I totaled about 20k per year. Freshmen were required to live in the dorms so no savings there the first year. This is a reasonably good public school but it's not particularly prestigious. I worked every summer to support myself and part time for a full year to cut my loans a little. Still ended up with 60k out the door. Graduating into the literal bottom of the recession with $900/month loan payments was not a pleasant experience. It's still unpleasant as they are not fully paid off yet.
Quote:
As someone said, its well established that graduates earn more than
non-graduates, and I will bet that a STEM -graduate earns a lot more too.
Careful here. On average STEM jobs have pretty good starting wages. However, there are plenty of business and liberal arts grads that make quite a bit more than my engineering peers and I.
Careful here. On average STEM jobs have pretty good starting wages. However, there are plenty of business and liberal arts grads that make quite a bit more than my engineering peers and I.
I think he's referring more to the degree than the job. What about the STEM grads that went into business? I have several classmates that took their engineering degrees to Wall Street. Several of my wife's classmates went into management consulting.
Careful here. On average STEM jobs have pretty good starting wages. However, there are plenty of business and liberal arts grads that make quite a bit more than my engineering peers and I.
I would like to know the origins of those numbers, as those starting salaries are really only for Software engineers and related. As a mechanical engineer with friends in many fields with varying degrees of academic an professional success, I've observed that a typical engineering graduate (2009) started around 50-55k. I realize this is anecdotal, but this was the type of offer available from companies large and small in several industries.
I realize it's anecdotal, but no one in my peer group reached the salary numbers commonly spewed as the "average" by colleges looking to recruit smart kids to their engineering school.
you have a point. Not all STEM is CS. Point taken.
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