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1. You are assuming that the housing cost is a given, and that is a HUGE assumption. For me on the other hand, having a child, required me to buy a bigger house. And in the bay area that was more expensive . You do need larger space for a family, especially a child's things take up space. The toys themselves are not too expensive. But the desire to house a child can be.
2. Clothes, they can be expensive and don't last too long.
3. Time, as you pointed out. or Child care. In my case, my wife is a SAHM, but he still goes to pre-school part time. We pay ~400/ month. Thats expensive. For those who go full time it can be easily 1000-2000/ month.
4. Love, you do want the best for your kids and likely to pay a premium for every thing. thats why you have kids.
5. Recreation - you pay for other kids to play with your kids after school. Or you pay for them to learn things that you believe will enrich their lives.
6. Food. If kid has any food allergies, formulae costs can be painful. As they get older they add a linear cost to your food.
7. Travel, can't quite love them in the house. Tickets are now 1+. Entry to museum 1+
8. Want to go out on a date . Money up more change .
You are essentially supporting another person, albeit a little person. So there are costs.
Some of what I said is bay area spiel. ie. if cost of housing is not that high for great schools, costs can reduce.
An infant is maybe 200-300 USD/month extra
A toddler with daycare is 1000+/month
A school going kid to public school can become cheaper again. However private schools can be 15-25k/yr.
Without a kid you have more time and more money and an evolutionary dead end
Good points, as usual!
I'll add this: IME (and I would put money down that this will be your experience, too, aramax!!) costs do NOT go down after the kids start school! First, schools ask for a lot of money. Public and private. Second, kids start activities--some of which are cheap and some quite expensive! Travel sports? Travel to national science competitions? Piano lessons, foreign language, violin, and math tutors. Here's one parents of young children don't think of: supplies for projects! I'm on Amazon all the time ordering things my kids "need" for projects (because, really, who wants their kid to have a crummy project?! That's just mean.) Oh, technology. Our schools have a Bring Your Own Device system (with a few extra iPads for the kids who don't have them. Phones, cars, insurance. Our family is not even there yet! But I don't expect the teen years to be cheap!!
So, again, CAN parents avoid paying for all this? Yes. Almost all of that is "optional." As it pertains to this thread, however, WILL many parents making $200K a year withhold ALL of those opportunities from their kids? No, most would rather take a hit to the growth rate of their net worth.
I'll add this: IME (and I would put money down that this will be your experience, too, aramax!!) costs do NOT go down after the kids start school! First, schools ask for a lot of money. Public and private. Second, kids start activities--some of which are cheap and some quite expensive! Travel sports? Travel to national science competitions? Piano lessons, foreign language, violin, and math tutors. Here's one parents of young children don't think of: supplies for projects! I'm on Amazon all the time ordering things my kids "need" for projects (because, really, who wants their kid to have a crummy project?! That's just mean.) Oh, technology. Our schools have a Bring Your Own Device system (with a few extra iPads for the kids who don't have them. Phones, cars, insurance. Our family is not even there yet! But I don't expect the teen years to be cheap!!
So, again, CAN parents avoid paying for all this? Yes. Almost all of that is "optional." As it pertains to this thread, however, WILL many parents making $200K a year withhold ALL of those opportunities from their kids? No, most would rather take a hit to the growth rate of their net worth.
From the responses I see, it seems people feel compelled to spend on their kids as much as they can - so it does seem that if you're purely looking at net worth, kids are a drain, because it almost doesn't matter how much money you've got, it you have kids you'll direct a huge amount of your surplus, if any, toward the kids in order to maintain their lifestyle and set them up for lifestyle success. The kids "needs" will expand to consume your NW like gas expands to fill its container.
It's gotta be perspective. I live in 2/1; 1000sf house. It was a former rent-house in moderate disrepair, so we got it at a great price. My wife and I have gotten into arguments over space because we feel cramped like it's too small - we would also feel compelled to move into a place at least 50% if not 100% bigger if we had kids.
When I think that, I try to remind myself that the previous occupants housed a family of 4 in there, we only have 2. They paid more in rent than I pay in mortgage+taxes+insurance and made less money than me, so I should stop complaining [yes we're contributing to gentrification of the area].
IME public schools are not as bad as people say if you use common sense with your location. If it's not a gang area it should be fine. Heck I was fine and there were some gang-bangers where I grew up. I went to public schools in south Texas - not a rich area by ANY stretch of the imagination. One of the poorer areas of the country in fact. I turned out fine, solidly middle class - my parents were engaged with my education which made about as much difference as paying 10-20K per year in private school would have been. IDK maybe I would have made it in to Yale or Stanford if I'd gone to private school but probably not. Your taxes go to that stuff so you might as well get something out of it.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that if maintaining or growing your NW is a priority, a kid does not necessarily require you to give that up. The kids can be frugal same as the adults.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aramax666
1. You are assuming that the housing cost is a given, and that is a HUGE assumption. For me on the other hand, having a child, required me to buy a bigger house. And in the bay area that was more expensive . You do need larger space for a family, especially a child's things take up space. The toys themselves are not too expensive. But the desire to house a child can be.
2. Clothes, they can be expensive and don't last too long.
3. Time, as you pointed out. or Child care. In my case, my wife is a SAHM, but he still goes to pre-school part time. We pay ~400/ month. Thats expensive. For those who go full time it can be easily 1000-2000/ month.
4. Love, you do want the best for your kids and likely to pay a premium for every thing. thats why you have kids.
5. Recreation - you pay for other kids to play with your kids after school. Or you pay for them to learn things that you believe will enrich their lives.
6. Food. If kid has any food allergies, formulae costs can be painful. As they get older they add a linear cost to your food.
7. Travel, can't quite love them in the house. Tickets are now 1+. Entry to museum 1+
8. Want to go out on a date . Money up more change .
You are essentially supporting another person, albeit a little person. So there are costs.
Some of what I said is bay area spiel. ie. if cost of housing is not that high for great schools, costs can reduce.
An infant is maybe 200-300 USD/month extra
A toddler with daycare is 1000+/month
A school going kid to public school can become cheaper again. However private schools can be 15-25k/yr.
Without a kid you have more time and more money and an evolutionary dead end
Last edited by redguard57; 10-07-2015 at 12:24 PM..
Put it like THIS. Kids aren't that expensive if you keep the family together. But the moment your "baby momma" breaks up with you and starts all of the proceedings to rip you over in the child support system, that's when having kids becomes extremely expensive.
A guy making $100k might have to pay out $30,000 - $40,000 a year in child support to a damn infant. Where do you think that money is going, to the infant? Of course not.
It's going to the "baby momma" so she can buy weave, bail her convicted felon boyfriends out of prison, and go shopping with Tyquesha at the Mall buying bull___ from some foreign clothing designer whose name she can't even pronounce.
Put it like THIS. Kids aren't that expensive if you keep the family together. But the moment your "baby momma" breaks up with you and starts all of the proceedings to rip you over in the child support system, that's when having kids becomes extremely expensive.
A guy making $100k might have to pay out $30,000 - $40,000 a year in child support to a damn infant. Where do you think that money is going, to the infant? Of course not.
It's going to the "baby momma" so she can buy weave, bail her convicted felon boyfriends out of prison, and go shopping with Tyquesha at the Mall buying bull___ from some foreign clothing designer whose name she can't even pronounce.
I haven't followed the whole thread but it sounds like you don't like women nor children. It would help if a male got to know the woman first before trying to pro create with her. Another unpopular option these days for heterosexual is marriage. Maybe money is more important to some than family. I just found your post odd...Just my two cents.
BTW, I'm a happily married female 14 years in with children and a growing net worth and from my point of view life is grand.
Location: Chapel Hill, NC, formerly NoVA and Phila
9,780 posts, read 15,797,090 times
Reputation: 10888
North Carolina (used to be DC)
48 and 49 years old
$145K yearly salary
NW $1.7M
We did not have an inheritance, but both of us had a good start in life with college fully paid for (which back then was about $8k per year). I also got a new-to-me used car from my parents for a college graduation present. On top of that, I am a super saver and live pretty frugally (had roommates after college, am a vegetarian, not a big drinker, not into name brands, etc), so I was able to consistently put away money month after month since my early 20's and benefit from the "magic" of compounding. In addition to that, we got lucky in the DC real estate market. Bought a house for $300K in 2000 and sold it for $575K 13 years later. And to add to the discussion of kids vs. no kids, we have 3 children, but didn't have my first until I was 32, so most of my savings came before I started having kids and switched to part-time work.
I haven't followed the whole thread but it sounds like you don't like women nor children. It would help if a male got to know the woman first before trying to pro create with her. Another unpopular option these days for heterosexual is marriage. Maybe money is more important to some than family. I just found your post odd...Just my two cents.
BTW, I'm a happily married female 14 years in with children and a growing net worth and from my point of view life is grand.
Lordy! Just read previous posts! Will boggle your mind!!! You'll laugh, you'll cry...
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