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Thats how the downward spiral starts, the retoric starts that at least we are not 3rd world somolians, is that the standard with which we are gonig to measure for our own culture?
I have no idea what you are getting at. Could you explain a bit?
The general takeaway, I still think, is that in answer to the OP, someone on MW is NOT making it unless they've got a viable plan to increase their income. I declined down to MW-style jobs for about a year and a half after college when the recession hit and as a result I was in the first round of layoffs. I did NOT make it... I used credit cards to keep myself going, was a frugal as possible to keep it manageable... but I was doing the whole transfer balance to a new 0% apr card every year thing for a while. I knew that sooner or later I would get a better job and I'd pay those cards off, which did happen.
I just heard a story on the radio today about former foster children who get turned out into the world at age 18-19 and end up homeless. It talked about they are the most vulnerable type of homeless, especially the girls... but the guys too not in much better shape. Very easy for them to fall into prostitution, drugs, drug running, crime, etc... Many of us on this board take for granted how valuable our upbringing was. Most of us came from 2-parent households that taught us those life skills. It's one of the things I meant by "subsidy." It's not dollars and cents but it's extremely valuable. More valuable than dollars, even. Those are the kinds of people who can only command MW jobs who are in a much worse situation.
Most of us also worked MW-style jobs when we were young, in college, saving for college or when we got laid off or something like that. I don't consider that real poverty. It's a temporary situation.
Minimum wage WAS meant to be a "bare minimum" wage to live on. Franklin Roosevelt said as much when he signed the legislation back in the 1930s. What we take for granted is that there were more ways to live on a bare minimum income in those days, living costs were less. Our MW has not kept pace with inflation... it should be around $11.00 at least, probably $12-12.50. Also we've made living more expensive. I would prefer we raised national minimum wage to around $11 and MORE IMPORTANTLY, do something on the housing supply side to make living more affordable.
I'd prefer to see single room occupancies make a comeback. Probably the easiest way to accomplish that is through AirBnB style initiatives.
In addition to this, I noticed several people talked about "making it" way back when... whenever that was... not now. Minimum wage is not what it used to be. It seems not many people are doing it on their own currently without having multiple jobs, working more than 40 hours.
Minimum wage WAS meant to be a "bare minimum" wage to live on.
As separate individuals in their own un-shared domicile? NO.
On a shared basis it IS enough to get by on ...IF they have enough hours.
Raising the MW isn't likely to increase hours worked by anyone.
This points out the far larger problem at the no/low skilled end of the job market today:
Too many available for too few jobs.
Quote:
Franklin Roosevelt said as much when he signed the legislation back in the 1930s.
What F.D.R. said in 1938 about establishing a minimum wage:
“Without question it starts us toward a better standard of living
and increases purchasing power to buy the products of farm and factory.”
I am not uneducated. I'm probably one of the few people in the world who actually sits at work and reads the entire 100 page 401k and pension plan document page by page because I'm interested. No legal 401k plan is charging 1% a month in fees. That is crazy! You are not understanding how much money that would add up to.
You are just misreading whatever you are attempting to use as a source.
Yes, you are
Their fees, by law, must only be "reasonable"
It's been added up a few times and the entire thing posted already
As separate individuals in their own un-shared domicile? NO.
On a shared basis it IS enough to get by on ...IF they have enough hours.
Raising the MW isn't likely to increase hours worked by anyone.
This points out the far larger problem at the no/low skilled end of the job market today:
Too many available for too few jobs.
What F.D.R. said in 1938 about establishing a minimum wage:
“Without question it starts us toward a better standard of living
and increases purchasing power to buy the products of farm and factory.”
If what you say is true, than doesn't that make "unrelated occupancy" limits immoral when they are more restrictive than related occupancy limits?
From 19-23, I lived off of crap jobs. I worked at a restaurant for a while and made just over minimum wage. Well, it's hard to really say how much I made...some days/weeks, I made less...sometimes, we'd be super busy or I'd have generous customers, and I'd make well over minimum wage. It all evened out to just over, though.
Somehow it seems easier to me to live on minimum wage when you work in a restaurant. When I delivered pizzas, the drivers had a good supply of food to take home, as we had some prank calls and other "bad orders" - fake orders called in with fake addresses, prank orders called in with real (someone else's) addresses, mistakes (customer ordered GREEN olives, not BLACK olives), etc. Anchovy pizza orders were always called back for verification because they were often fake, but nobody ever called back pepperoni orders, as the worst outcome was a fake order and one more pie for employees to take home.
Living off crap jobs
Dressing like a slob
All of the tourists covered with oil!
But there's ramen in my room
Then I'll drink to my doom
That frozen concoction that helps me hang on...
Here's how it could be done here, but only in a few areas in the busier city. Certainly not in the majority of the town
$10.50 per hr min wage x 8 hrs day =$84 day/$17,4720 yr (Gross)
$17,472 yr gross
$1397.76 mandatory SS&Medicare tax
$17,472 yr
-10,300 (standard ded+exemption)
------------
$7172 taxed x .18% tax (state, fed, FICA)=$1290.96
$17,472.00 yr
$1,290.96 tax
-------------
$16,181.04 yr
$16,181.04 yr
-$6600 rent yr
--------------
$9581.04
$1320 year (If they took short showers, barely turned heat/ac on+landline)
-----------
$8261.04
$228.00 (taking the bus only at pouring down rain periods, about 1/4 of the yr)
----------
$8393 yr/$699 mo.
$699.00 mo
-$62.50 min credit card payment
------------
$637.00 per mo.
Since they make too much for medicaid and their employer "offers" an aca mandatory policy, they cannot get a subsidy from the exchanges which would allow them one free doctors visit per year. If they are sick once a year, the free examination visit becomes a sick visit where it costs on average of $210 to see the doctor at the doc in the box. Medication is cheap, $10 for antibiotics.
$200 per yr/$17.50 mo. If not, they can buy another pair of work pants. Same cost for a dental cleaning+ x rays if they skip dentists each year and take the new dentists up on their intro offers.
$637
-$17.50 (one doc visit)
-$17.50 (one dental visit, cleaning+xrays)
------- $602.00 per mo do-able only if using public transportation at a bare minimum (or pay $76 mo)
There should be enough $ leftover to get by. Clothing, food, haircut (enough so employer will be sufficed) and a menial level of dental/medical care.
Food is EXTREMELY expensive here so they could really get by if they could eat the leftover food from customers.
If they needed a car, forget it. There are almost no cars here cheap enough to buy. And the bus only goes so far so you must live somewhat nearby. The heat is over 100 degrees and the cold is freezing temp at times so if you only rode the bus 1/4 of the time, and walked to keep in shape, it is doable
Landlords here will not allow more than one person per bedroom except a couple maybe in a studio.
The neighbors will report them since we really have no slummy neighborhoods. The area they'd live in has alot of police due to theft
Otherwise to pay the same bare min amt of rent you'd still need to live near the town because vehicles here are so expensive to put it on a CC card+insurance+dmv fees, would eat up the paycheck. And to buy a decent car here there would be almost no paycheck.
Here's how it could be done here, but only in a few areas in the busier city. Certainly not in the majority of the town
$10.50 per hr min wage x 8 hrs day =$84 day/$17,4720 yr (Gross)
$17,472 yr gross
$1397.76 mandatory SS&Medicare tax
$17,472 yr
-10,300 (standard ded+exemption)
------------
$7172 taxed x .18% tax (state, fed, FICA)=$1290.96
$17,472.00 yr
$1,290.96 tax
-------------
$16,181.04 yr
$16,181.04 yr
-$6600 rent yr
--------------
$9581.04
$1320 year (If they took short showers, barely turned heat/ac on+landline)
-----------
$8261.04
$228.00 (taking the bus only at pouring down rain periods, about 1/4 of the yr)
----------
$8393 yr/$699 mo.
$699.00 mo
-$62.50 min credit card payment
------------
$637.00 per mo.
Since they make too much for medicaid and their employer "offers" an aca mandatory policy, they cannot get a subsidy from the exchanges which would allow them one free doctors visit per year. If they are sick once a year, the free examination visit becomes a sick visit where it costs on average of $210 to see the doctor at the doc in the box. Medication is cheap, $10 for antibiotics.
$200 per yr/$17.50 mo. If not, they can buy another pair of work pants. Same cost for a dental cleaning+ x rays if they skip dentists each year and take the new dentists up on their intro offers.
$637
-$17.50 (one doc visit)
-$17.50 (one dental visit, cleaning+xrays)
------- $602.00 per mo do-able only if using public transportation at a bare minimum (or pay $76 mo)
There should be enough $ leftover to get by. Clothing, food, haircut (enough so employer will be sufficed) and a menial level of dental/medical care.
Food is EXTREMELY expensive here so they could really get by if they could eat the leftover food from customers.
If they needed a car, forget it. There are almost no cars here cheap enough to buy. And the bus only goes so far so you must live somewhat nearby. The heat is over 100 degrees and the cold is freezing temp at times so if you only rode the bus 1/4 of the time, and walked to keep in shape, it is doable
Landlords here will not allow more than one person per bedroom except a couple maybe in a studio.
The neighbors will report them since we really have no slummy neighborhoods. The area they'd live in has alot of police due to theft
Otherwise to pay the same bare min amt of rent you'd still need to live near the town because vehicles here are so expensive to put it on a CC card+insurance+dmv fees, would eat up the paycheck. And to buy a decent car here there would be almost no paycheck.
.
A lot of minimum wage workers work shifts of indeterminate length, such as in restaurants or fast food. Because a restaurant's daily activity cannot be known in advance, employees are scheduled on the basis of high expectations and then sent home early on days when actual customer traffic is lower.
Which means these employees MIGHT be scheduled for 40 hours without actually being able to work or get paid for 40 hours. When I delivered pizzas I worked 48 hours one very busy week - it was too busy to send me home - and after that my boss made sure I never ever got close to 40 hours again, because he had to enser to corporate suits and hated to pay overtime.
In larger cities a public transit monthly pass would cost more than $75 (here it is $100 and there is a senior/disabled discount but no low income discount) and in smaller cities probably less than $75.
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In addition to this, I noticed several people talked about "making it" way back when... whenever that was... not now. Minimum wage is not what it used to be. It seems not many people are doing it on their own currently without having multiple jobs, working more than 40 hours.
