Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Fair enough that you're consistent with the class of people rather than race. I wasn't pointing anyone out here as I haven't delved that deep into the crime thread. But I'm familiar enough with the usual context in other Philly-centric social media to understand potential hidden meanings.
The "easy" thing to do would be to prescribe individual responsibility by having fewer kids but it doesn't address making up for the past make up for the responsibility in investment and commitment that needs to be made on a regional, state or even national level. It would include:
An investment into infrastructure to repair blighted neighborhoods while protecting the residents from being forced out by market-based gentrification.
Turning schools effectively into community centers offering childcare before and after classes, evening GED programs for adults, and weekend night activities for kids.
Offering tax incentives for manufacturing companies to return to the city.
Having said companies work with CCP and other area community colleges to offer relevant training. In the case that CCP would become overcrowded with aspiring tradespeople, offer SEPTA shuttles to the suburban community colleges to take up the slack.
On a similar note, offer express shuttle buses from the city to retail hotspots in the suburbs and exurbs where there is a chronic shortage of workers.
Needless to say, the city couldn't afford a bond to take all of that on by itself. It would be a hard sales job on Bucks, Montco, Delco and Chester on how helping Philly would benefit them too. Governor Wolf would be hard-pressed to make such a bold proposal to a majority legislature that has disdain for the city. The only piece the current White House might agree with are the tax incentives to manufacturing companies as that's already being supported through their version of opportunity zones. Unlike the previous version many of us are aware of, I'm not so sure that this iteration is for the benefit of local residents. But I digress.
Obviously I am not a policymaker so I don't know how to flesh out the details of how all these concepts are supposed to work. Some (or many) may say we don't have the money to do it...but we find the money to do other things as a country so IMO it's a matter of will and philosophy.
Look, I agree with many of your proposed support systems above, but pragmatically they simply aren't fund-able unless we first reduce the number of children who would likely qualify to take advantage of these services. In my opinion, all roads lead to the first step needing to be reduction of future burden before we can help the existing children. I don't think any truly impactful support net could be established that would keep up with the sheer amount of discarded children that are born each year.
Look, I agree with many of your proposed support systems above, but pragmatically they simply aren't fund-able unless we first reduce the number of children who would likely qualify to take advantage of these services. In my opinion, all roads lead to the first step needing to be reduction of future burden before we can help the existing children. I don't think any truly impactful support net could be established that would keep up with the sheer amount of discarded children that are born each year.
Many of the proposals don't make logical or business sense. Repairing blighted neighborhoods is incredibly expensive and who's to say the people living there would actually take care of them afterward? Isn't that at least part of the problem? People aren't even willing to sweep their porches or throw trash in the garbage, much less maintain the bigger things in a home (which are sometimes possible with little money and some hard work). And how are we going to get manufacturing businesses, which have relocated overseas in mass, to come back to the USA so that untrained, unskilled workers can get jobs? Companies look for cheap labor and/or those that have skills to manufacture. They don't want the overhead of paying USA workers who do not have the skills. Amazon is probably the only large company that has helped here recently. It is providing warehouse and delivery jobs to many people and that is a good thing. But don't expect another Amazon, it's really lightning in a bottle.
More training and education is critical, but if anyone pursues and succeeds on this path, they're going to leave the "bad neighborhoods". The bad neighborhoods largely stay the same.
The truth is that there is no easy solution, and I'm not sure how it's considered "easy" to assign personal responsibility btw, that would be a great end-result of several complex strategies. Cutting back on the number of unwanted, unparented children would be helpful, but I don't see that happening any time soon.
Look, I agree with many of your proposed support systems above, but pragmatically they simply aren't fund-able unless we first reduce the number of children who would likely qualify to take advantage of these services. In my opinion, all roads lead to the first step needing to be reduction of future burden before we can help the existing children. I don't think any truly impactful support net could be established that would keep up with the sheer amount of discarded children that are born each year.
We can certainly do both IMO but I don't think we should wait for a reduction in the rate of population growth in poor neighborhoods before embarking on those admittedly ambitious goals.
Many of the proposals don't make logical or business sense. Repairing blighted neighborhoods is incredibly expensive and who's to say the people living there would actually take care of them afterward? Isn't that at least part of the problem? People aren't even willing to sweep their porches or throw trash in the garbage, much less maintain the bigger things in a home (which are sometimes possible with little money and some hard work). And how are we going to get manufacturing businesses, which have relocated overseas in mass, to come back to the USA so that untrained, unskilled workers can get jobs? Companies look for cheap labor and/or those that have skills to manufacture. They don't want the overhead of paying USA workers who do not have the skills. Amazon is probably the only large company that has helped here recently. It is providing warehouse and delivery jobs to many people and that is a good thing. But don't expect another Amazon, it's really lightning in a bottle.
More training and education is critical, but if anyone pursues and succeeds on this path, they're going to leave the "bad neighborhoods". The bad neighborhoods largely stay the same.
The truth is that there is no easy solution, and I'm not sure how it's considered "easy" to assign personal responsibility btw, that would be a great end-result of several complex strategies. Cutting back on the number of unwanted, unparented children would be helpful, but I don't see that happening any time soon.
My ideas were more stream of consciousness than sequential. Repairing the neighborhoods along with providing access to job training and reimagining schools into community centers would IMO create a sense of pride and security that would encourage people to take more pride in where they live.
As I said earlier, people would need to be trained for those manufacturing positions. I wasn't necessarily envisioning someone on the level of Amazon. Perhaps some small-to-medium-sized manufacturers would be willing to take a chance with some incentives and a partnership with local community colleges for job training.
In terms of cutting back on children, I put "easy" in quotes as it puts the onus on individual community members rather than getting legislature to pass and fund the proposals I've made. I'm glad we agree that simply having less children isn't the answer. That may lessen some financial pressure on the parent(s) but it won't help them get better jobs or improve the conditions of the schools.
My ideas were more stream of consciousness than sequential. Repairing the neighborhoods along with providing access to job training and reimagining schools into community centers would IMO create a sense of pride and security that would encourage people to take more pride in where they live.
As I said earlier, people would need to be trained for those manufacturing positions. I wasn't necessarily envisioning someone on the level of Amazon. Perhaps some small-to-medium-sized manufacturers would be willing to take a chance with some incentives and a partnership with local community colleges for job training.
In terms of cutting back on children, I put "easy" in quotes as it puts the onus on individual community members rather than getting legislature to pass and fund the proposals I've made. I'm glad we agree that simply having less children isn't the answer. That may lessen some financial pressure on the parent(s) but it won't help them get better jobs or improve the conditions of the schools.
Everything on City-Data is stream of consciousness because none of us have the resources, influence or tools to make these things happen. Including my posts.
It is my belief that taking pride in something comes from earning it. My father instilled pride in me by pushing me to work hard at any job. To take care of every house or apartment regardless of its size or monetary value. And over the course of 40 years, I have gotten to the point where I have not only pride for me and my family, but great respect and pride for my neighbors and community. Pride has a way of working from the inside out.
If people are simply given something, they might be appreciative or thankful, but it is a temporary and superficial result. I have seen this first hand myself. Some people even believe it was owed to them and will expect to be given it again, even to great anger when others do not give them what is due.
If we are to really fix the problem, I believe values must change. But changing a society's culture is the hardest thing to do because you are changing how the macro-organism decides it wants to live life. The only way to do so is for people to want to work and have the best life possible. And the only way to encourage people to work hard is to give opportunity but no favors...across the board. And if that can happen, maybe in 20 years, things will start to move. But there is so much working against it. America is divided, distracted, stupid, lazy, entitled, and selfish. Not everyone, but that is what is floating to the surface. People want to be movie stars, famous musicians, they want to say and do stupid things just for attention. No matter how many houses we fix and no matter how many programs we launch, societal values will never change until we can relate to one another through hard work to establish pride for each family and community.
Everything on City-Data is stream of consciousness because none of us have the resources, influence or tools to make these things happen. Including my posts.
It is my belief that taking pride in something comes from earning it. My father instilled pride in me by pushing me to work hard at any job. To take care of every house or apartment regardless of its size or monetary value. And over the course of 40 years, I have gotten to the point where I have not only pride for me and my family, but great respect and pride for my neighbors and community. Pride has a way of working from the inside out.
If people are simply given something, they might be appreciative or thankful, but it is a temporary and superficial result. I have seen this first hand myself. Some people even believe it was owed to them and will expect to be given it again, even to great anger when others do not give them what is due.
If we are to really fix the problem, I believe values must change. But changing a society's culture is the hardest thing to do because you are changing how the macro-organism decides it wants to live life. The only way to do so is for people to want to work and have the best life possible. And the only way to encourage people to work hard is to give opportunity but no favors...across the board. And if that can happen, maybe in 20 years, things will start to move. But there is so much working against it. America is divided, distracted, stupid, lazy, entitled, and selfish. Not everyone, but that is what is floating to the surface. People want to be movie stars, famous musicians, they want to say and do stupid things just for attention. No matter how many houses we fix and no matter how many programs we launch, societal values will never change until we can relate to one another through hard work to establish pride for each family and community.
I approach it from the angle not that people don't want to work - as mentioned upthread, many poor parents are working several jobs to support themselves and their kids - but rather that the jobs are low-paying and/or are in suburban/exurban locations difficult to reach without a car or convenient SEPTA access.
And, at the risk of sounding like a broken record, I believe the hollowing out of opportunities in the city over the last 50 years for the poor and working class contributed to a sentiment of despair and hopelessness in the city's most challenged neighborhoods. Cultivating pride in such a ground-down, defeatist atmosphere would be difficult at best.
I approach it from the angle not that people don't want to work - as mentioned upthread, many poor parents are working several jobs to support themselves and their kids - but rather that the jobs are low-paying and/or are in suburban/exurban locations difficult to reach without a car or convenient SEPTA access.
And, at the risk of sounding like a broken record, I believe the hollowing out of opportunities in the city over the last 50 years for the poor and working class contributed to a sentiment of despair and hopelessness in the city's most challenged neighborhoods. Cultivating pride in such a ground-down, defeatist atmosphere would be difficult at best.
I think there are a good number of people working multiple jobs. There are also a good number of people working few or no jobs that could otherwise work. And then you have a huge portion of people in this country who think they are better than the job they currently hold. I am at the point where I don't like to go to a majority of establishments because the workers are lazy, slow, rude, and couldn't care less about what they are doing. This is precisely what I'm talking about. If you are doing the minimum, it doesn't matter how many jobs you're working, you will not find a better way of life.
The problem doesn't just exist in the blighted neighborhoods IMO. It exists all over the place. Lazy, disrespectful middle class kids pissed that they are working at Whole Foods with $200k in student loans. Try to give them a blueprint to further themselves and get into their desired career path (with 5 - 10 years of hard work) and they don't want to hear it. Lazy, disrespectful 50 year old delivery man who's pissed that he's delivering food and has to get out of his car and knock on a door. Lazy 23 year old woman working a food register at the new arcade place in FDP, who almost does everything she can to avoid helping a customer. It's a pervasive issue.
And I think America is going to find out what a "ground-down, defeatist atmosphere" really looks like when there is not enough food for everyone. That day may come in our lifetime. I know I will work any and all jobs I hold with pride and I will work as many jobs as I am required to work to provide for my family.
You two, AJNEOA and FindingZen, are both correct just approaching the matter with slightly different mindsets. The only constant in your opinions seems to be one thing: with fewer children the burdens would lessen for all parties substantially. Fewer jobs could be worked by the parent, more money would be around for necessities and with increased time there might be an opportunity for said parent to teach values and responsibility to her/his one or two children, rather than simply keeping alive 8 children.
“We look at the statistics now, the national statistics in the black community, 70% of our children are growing up in households without a mom and pop,” Qayyum added. “That’s where we’ve got to begin the work to change this around."
“In families where there are intact couples, you see less violence,” Muhammad told me. “The family is where children learn peace. They learn how to resolve conflict. Children can see their parents argue and fuss and kiss and make up. They learn that everything is not resolved with a beef and a gun. They learn that people can kiss, fuss and fight, and make up, and nobody has to fight, and it doesn’t have to end in violence.”
You two, AJNEOA and FindingZen, are both correct just approaching the matter with slightly different mindsets. The only constant in your opinions seems to be one thing: with fewer children the burdens would lessen for all parties substantially. Fewer jobs could be worked by the parent, more money would be around for necessities and with increased time there might be an opportunity for said parent to teach values and responsibility to her/his one or two children, rather than simply keeping alive 8 children.
Haha, you're right. Thanks for settling it (from my perspective)
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
