What's the point of it all if we fade into nonexistence? (religion, life)

[foos2]

Swan Dive,

I completely relate to your existential crisis. I went through a similar experience, including a lot of anxiety, when I was about 25 yrs old. I ultimately came through it (13 years ago), but the process required lots of thinking about the "big questions" that you ask. Here's a bit of what I came up with:

I think there's reason enough to not believe in a personal god (someone who answers prayers, etc), but there's enough uncertainty about the purpose of the universe, why anything exists, etc., to conclude that there is no meaning at all. There is an important distinction we must make: you fading into nonexistence does not mean that civilization and humanity as a whole must fade into nonexistence. I believe that after I die, the mind and personality that comprise "me" will be no longer. However, I like to think of humanity's existence on this planet -- and in this universe --as a kind of game. We are tasked with discovering all of the secrets to the universe, and civilization as a whole might one day find peace, explore other planets, and find some higher purpose that we aren't yet able to understand. As a result, I have made it a life goal to contribute to the cause of humanity. I will help to discover knowledge, I will help others in their daily lives, and I will help promote peace. I also think this finite thing called life is an amazing gift, so I will seek simple pleasures along the way, as long as this pursuit doesn't hurt others.

For me, part of rejecting the personal god (while committing myself to a greater purpose) meant that I have had to gradually release much of my ego. This, I learned, is in line with the basic tenets of buddhist thought, in which life has purpose but personal ego is the root of all suffering. The release of ego is also important to a soldier going into battle (a very non-buddhist thing!), where your life is in service for the greater good. I like to think of myself as servicing the goals of humanity.

A few years after going through this thought evolution, I had some serious medical scares, and I prepared for the possibility of not surviving them. While these were obviously very difficult times, they were easier to navigate since I had already released some of my ego.

I recommend taking a look at the belief system and goals of "secular humanism." Many people who faced the same questions as you emerged as humanists, led satisfying lives, and went on to make amazing contributions to our world.

Another poster mentioned the singularity. This is the point in time when humans become fused with our technological inventions and thus potentially immortal. Proponents of this event believe it will happen around 2045 or sooner. I recommend googling Ray Kurzweil, who is one well known proponent (but not the first).

Finally, a last piece of advice: When pondering the most fundamental questions of existence, some people experience a positive feeling -- one of great wonder -- while others experience anxiety. This tells me that the questions (and possible answers) themselves are not emotionally troublesome. For you, think about whether there are things going on in your life outside of the big questions that are anxiety inducing. e.g., difficult relationship, job trouble, moving, or other tough situation. I was experiencing some of these things when I had my existential crisis, and I later came to realize that the anxiety wasn't about the lack of life after death, but rather, it was about the much more practical day to day things. If you do have serious anxiety, you really should tell your doctor about it.

Be well, and know that you're not alone.

[JrzDefector]

I suppose I once had anxiety about this kind of thing. I have dealt with both anxiety and depression, and they're not fun. These days though, I don't really care if life has meaning or not. Who cares if there's an afterlife?

I have good people in my life now whom I cherish and love. I take pleasure in anything from bacon cheeseburger to a well-turned phrase to the rhythm of an old Waylon Jennings song. I love to be in my pickup with a full tank of gas on a sunny day. I love the vicarious thrill of watching my Catahoula run hell-for-leather to fetch a ball and then leap 6 feet into the air to grab it before it hits the ground.

Yeah, everything comes to an end - but there will be other people, other dogs, more books, more music, etc. I'm here to suck every moment of joy out of the world around me. Why does there have to be a greater meaning?

Now, at the same time I've got a pretty well-developed moral compass. Why bother? Why not descend into a spiral of hedonism? Why bother to care about the fate of strangers or how my actions affect peopel outside my circle of loved ones? Well, because the things that bring me joy would not be possible without a basic social structure that is reliant on the majority of us following some basic guidelines. There is also a pleasure to be found in being nice to people, even if they might never have a chance to reciprocate in kind. I'm not huge on the idea of a greater meaning, but I do believe that you get out what you put into the world, by and large. If your actions and words add to the joy/happiness/wellbeing of others, you will get back the same. It sounds hippy dippy, but it's really just logic.

Life is short. There's a lot of fun to be had, a lot of awesome things to experience. Why waste time brooding about death and gloom?

[Colorado Rambler]

OK, here you go. I think most would agree that the life force within us is a form of energy. Yes? The laws of physics teach us that energy is neither created nor destroyed. That means that we have been around in one form or another since the beginning of the universe and we will continue to be around in one form or another after our earthly existance is over. I have no idea what forms this energy may take, but at age 33 I "died" in a hospital ER when my heart stopped beating after I had been gravely injured in a terrible automobile accident. I remember a great feeling of calm and peace coming over me. I felt no longer seperate but a part of a great and wonderful whole and everything was exactly as it was supposed to be. I wanted to stay in that wonderful place I found myself in, but my father was at my bedside and kept calling me back. I did NOT want to return. I knew that if I came back I would endure terrible pain and grief and the place I was at was so wonderful. But my father's love pulled me back into this world and I spent months enduring a great deal of pain just as I'd kmown I would because it took the doctors quite a few surgeries to repair all the damage to my body. I am now 62 and I know that when I die, I will be going back to that place of great peace and at-oneness. I still look around me and try to see what is beautiful in this life, and I try to treat those around me with kindness and compassion. I find Buddhist philosophy very helpful to me in my quest to lead the best life I can. I'm far from being a saint and I go through very black periods of depression and I worry too much. So you see I don't have any perfect answers either, but I do feel there's more to our existance that most of us have ever imagined. In fact, I know it.

[Attrill]

If we all fade into non-existence after death, then all we get is what we've got now. I think that's an incredibly powerful motivation to live life to the fullest while you can. Seriously - if you think this is all we get then why would you p1ss it all away worrying about it?

If we fade into nothingness after death, that is a great reason to be social and build ties to others. Memories that others have of you will be all that is left, but that can be a great thing. All of my grandparents had died by the time my daughter was born, but she knows all their names, has visited where they lived, knows the outlines of their life stories, their favorite books and movies, and knows the recipes for many things they cooked (and taught me to cook). My grandfather was a huge influence on me, and even though he died 30 years ago I still consider what he would think when I'm making big decisions. That's being indirectly passed onto my daughter as well. Even after you're gone you can still leave ripples that continue for centuries, but you need to live a full life and interact with others for that to happen.

Ultimately no one can say with even a scrap of certainty what happens to "us" after we die. On religious and philosophical issues my views probably fall under a Humanist/Epicurean umbrella, but in the end I think it's all guess work at this point. In the future I think scientific studies in areas like cognition and physical studies of the brain will give us a new understanding of many metaphysical questions, but I don't think we'll ever find a simple answer, and it's foolish to look for one.

[GJJG2012]

I can relate. I'm 62 & haven't had much fun yet & time is running out. I have lifelong life-threatening illness (neurological disorders) & can never feel good. On pills for depression & anxiety, they don't help much. I discovered if I had high CBD cannabis ("marijuana"), my body got numb, & then my panic/anxiety & depression went away for a few hours. But high CBD cannabis hasn't been available around here for a dozen years & state will likely vote against it. Some people claim magnesium helped their panic attacks.

There could be an afterlife. What if this life is just a dream or the surface of Earth is Hell & we wake up to an excellent real life where things that kill us don't exist? I think perhaps the main thing that is killing us is the love of money, like political bribery that allowed corporations to get 85,000 toxins approved for our air, soil, food & water. If we can't get rid of all these toxins in our environment, then
we need the antidotes, things that help cleanse our innards. Today, 60% of Americans get cancer & 30% die from it. In the early 1930s, far fewer got cancer & the cure rate was over 90%.

There are still many cancer cures with up to 90%+ effectiveness, but were made illegal, kept secret, &/or never put on the market. Does getting into medical &/or political study & advice appeal to you? Do you have medical problems besides panic from fear of death?

As for improving your odds of living longer, some hobbies & type of job can be a factor. Organic food is likely safer than most, but too expensive if not wealthy. Almost everybody eats the pesticide, herbicide, insecticide treated food that might cause cancer & is already too expensive. Does your area have above or below average pollution?

A surgeon in South American cured almost everyone of stage 4 prostate cancer using 325 mg tablets of baking soda. You might want to study alternative medicine, most of it is cheap & rated by users with stories of what conditions became better. For some, formal studies exist.

Helping others helps ourselves & gives some a sense of purpose, but people with serious problems of their own may need to help themselves first. If you join a cause & work with many to change something bad, that can give a purpose where that change lasts long after you're gone.

I think possibly the main fears of death are I didn't have enough fun & I didn't do enough to help many others. Also, pain & disability before death if treatments fail. Best wishes.

Originally Posted by Swan Dive

Generally speaking it seems to me there is no afterlife.
How do we cope with finite life? I am having trouble accepting this. I get panic attacks about it
One minute I was a baby I remember my childhood well, then my teens, then 20's and now I'm 34 and it's going by quick, soon I will be old then I will die. Everyone will die. My dog will die.
It's happening to me so quickly. We are all in the same boat.
We could be killed at any point before old age.
I am having trouble accepting this for some reason.
What do I do with my time here. I don't know anymore...

[bg7]

Originally Posted by Swan Dive

If we are all going to die and fade into nonexistence and we assume there no after life and no god, just non existence. Like Before we were born. Then what's the point? How do we cope with this every second of the day fading away moment to moment into non existence?
Do we just replicate our genes and that's it?
Generally speaking it seems to me there is no afterlife.
How do we cope with finite life? I am having trouble accepting this. I get panic attacks about it
One minute I was a baby I remember my childhood well, then my teens, then 20's and now I'm 34 and it's going by quick, soon I will be old then I will die. Everyone will die. My dog will die.
It's happening to me so quickly. We are all in the same boat.
We could be killed at any point before old age.
Into nonexistence.
I am having trouble accepting this for some reason.
What do I do with my time here. I don't know anymore...

I don't see how you get from your a) to your b) here. If there is no afterlife, then life is meaningless? If there is an afterlife, or a continued existence somehow, then suddenly life has meaning? I don't think so.


Try this- you're sitting in a window seat of the coach, it starts off as the sun is rising, lets say over the desert. It is sublime. You pass the canyons, the thunderstorm booms and the lightning crackles. Rain beats heavily on the roof and the windows, then stops and the sun comes out again. Now the coach passes through the deep, cool conifer woods, the smell of pine wafts into the interior. You see a great owl flit across the road. The road continues to the beach, people surfing, great rolling breakers, BBQ-ers wave to you. Then the sun starts to set in the West, the skies drenched with unbelievably vivid crimson. The party starts on the coach, people are singing and dancing in the aisles and you catch a glimpse of a cloud scudding across the full moon in the night sky. And as the music fades the coach is returns to the depot where you left.

That was fantastic right? What a great time. But there was no point to it, it didn't go anywhere except back to where you started.

The point of life... is the journey. It is infinitely more complex, varied and substantial than the coach journey. And, as with all life, it involves suffering, moments of joy, contentment, struggle, relaxation, tiredness, jealously, love, rage, bliss. There aren't even enough words in English to describe all of its experience. Birth is part of it, death is part of it.

If you despair, you will miss the most of it.

[UEHelp]

If you were not self-aware before you were born, then wouldn't it be the same after you die?

There are many stories of people coming back to life after dying for short periods of time. ER doctors and nurses will tell you that sometimes, they can feel a presence leaving after a person dies.

My question is whether the white light, sense of well-being along with sensing the presence of a soul departing is our own brains playing tricks on us or kicking into "death gear" to ease the transition or whether there's something more to it. I guess we'll all find out.

[mordant]

Originally Posted by Swan Dive

I have trouble with the concept of death and nonexistence. I can't wrap my brain around it and it happens to us all. I am trying to figure out how to live the best life with this uncertainty

The same way you live with ANY uncertainty or unknown. How do you handle not knowing whether you will get a fatal cancer diagnosis today or not? How do you drive a car given the possibility that you may have a horrible accident before reaching your destination?

You are however actually asking how you handle something that's very likely: that there is no afterlife. It's not likely you'll get a fatal cancer diagnosis or a horrible car accident today, compared to that you will eventually die and that is the end of your personal experience of existence. How do we handle that?

I can only speak for myself. I like beginnings, middles and ends. I don't particularly want to be trapped in an afterlife from which I can't escape if I grow weary of it. I also don't buy the notion that an afterlife would automagically be wonderful. It may be SSDD (Same S__t, Different Dimension). Suppose I'm 5,726 years into the afterlife and I can't stand another second of it. What do I do, commit suicide? I'm already dead.

Anxieties about the afterlife are loaded with assumptions:

1) An afterlife would be a Good Thing.

2) Not knowing everything that will happen in the future is a Bad Thing.

3) A hypothetical future afterlife has a bearing on the quality of an actual present life.

4) It's important to my happiness that I can expect that all my goals and objectives be met and all perceived or real wrongs against me be righted, at least ultimately. If not, no happiness is possible and all is futile and scary.

Examine these implicit assumptions. For example (5) is really a roundabout way of saying that life is all about me. Is it?

[mordant]

Originally Posted by Josseppie

We will find out what the meaning of life is but it will not happen till after the singularity. I really believe that and a main reason I am doing all I can to make it to the singularity in 2030.

Good luck with that.

[2e1m5a]

Originally Posted by Swan Dive

Death seems to be non existence like before we were born.Why do you think we are eternal and Spiritual?

It's just something I feel. Have you ever had a strong sense of deja-vu or feeling like you've been some place before or met a person before? I sometimes feel like we are completing ourselves from past lives and preparing for future ones.

Now of course I'm not certain of any of this, but either way I will live this life to the fullest and try to make myself and those I surround myself with happy. There really is no other way to live.

As others have said, if this truly is our one and only life-shouldn't that give you more fire and motivation to live it, since you were granted such a limited gift?