Moved from MI to PHX area. Here are my thoughts after 1 year! (Phoenix: lease, high school)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I relocated from Ann Arbor, MI (35 miles s.w. of Detroit) to Litchfield Park, AZ about 1 year ago. I moved to Litchfield Park because I had friends in that area and wanted to be near to people I knew, and the housing was affordable. I stayed here in 2005 for two months living on the North side (7th st and Bell) before
I'm a 31 y.o black man and I must admit that I was unaware that the black population in AZ was so little, but that in and of itself isn't an issue to me, because I've lived in some small towns in MI throughout my life. I work for a large power company here (you can probably guess which one...lol) Downtown at the corporate office, where blacks make up about .08% of the workforce and I'd have to guess that Hispanics make up about 2%. I was shocked to see so few minorities in such a large company. I'm smart enough to know how the demographical statistics have incurred. The average age of an employee here is 48! 2/3rds of our workforce is at retirement age, so many of these people came aboard when they're probably weren't alot of minorities around, and hiring practices were alot more conservative. That's cool I understand that.
Now for my biggest gripes and I'll get off the race issue. Obviously there are ALOT of Mexicans here (I didn't say hispanics, because most are really from or decedents from Mexico), and I in my opinion an overwhelmingly majority of them are the most UNFRIENDLY people I've ever come across. Most don't speak to you, don't speak back to you, don't even look at you, and they seem to be working at alot of the establishments that I shop at. I notice the small things, like when you allow a fellow driver to get over, or let someone out who's turning in front of you. Usually a driver will give a wave as to say thanks for letting me in/out. 100% of the time Mexicans will never say thanks. I know this sounds trivial, but it's just the tip of the iceberg. I realize that there are cultural differences, but I thought that manners were universal. Even if you don't speak the language, how hard is it to smile at someone or smile back. Sometimes I go to a MAJOR chain fast food restaurant and the person taking my order doesn't even speak English. I feel as though they feel like they're better than me, and I don't belong in their areas.
Once I needed some tires mounted, and asked one of my buddies to recommend a reasonably priced placed to go. He suggested a place and told me he was just there and was charged $25 to get his tires mounted, when I went They tried to charge me $60! Later when I told my buddy who's Mexican he said it's because you were black. Whites and blacks for the most part are actually pretty friendly, but I have to travel to the North side, or East to be somewhat within my own element.
This is one of many reasons why I'm moving out of the west valley, after my lease is up. As I said before I lived on the North side briefly and I really liked it, and I think if I don't move downtown near my job, I'll move back to the North Side.
-The traffic here is bad, but honestly after a year it almost seems normal. AZers seem to have difficulty merging and alot of times this is what causes some of the back-ups. When it rains out here, I try and work late.....lol Because people don't know how to drive in the rain very good. (But in their defense the roads DO get very SLIPPERY when wet)
-It seems like most of the things to do are in the East Valley, which again is another reason why I'm leaving the west Valley.
-There isn't much to do except SHOP, there are more places to take your money out here than I've ever seen lol.
-The scenery is absolutely gorgeous out here. I love the mountains in the backgrounds. I'm from Michigan where you're lucky to find a steep hill
-Hiking the mountains has been phenomenal. Going quading in the deserts is GREAT.
-The explosive growth and opportunity out here is unparallel.
Having said all that, I'm truly undecided as to how long I'll remain here, I'm getting some excellent training and learning skills that will allow me to work anywhere in the country, so I'm keeping my options open.
If any Michiganders are reading this and contemplating on relocating here, I'd say do it! Michigan's economy is in the dump right now, and it really feels good be in a employees market, rather than a employers market. I've turned down jobs here that my peers in MI would probably cut off a pinky to get.
Trudawg, I don't mean to defend anyone, however, many of the Mexicans are illegal, and they may just want to avoid eye contact, and try to be invisible.
The Mexicans are not the only ones who don't say thanks when you let them merge. But consider that perhaps in the part of Mexico where they may have been accustomed to driving, it is not customary to wave thank you.
There are so many bad drivers here that just cut you off, and they are of all races.
I would recommend that you continue to be courteous, as I get the impression that you are a courteous person, and that's why you feel bad when others are discourteous.
Don't worry about the people who can't speak English fluently. Help them along. If they're working in a restaurant that means they are trying to learn English. Maybe learn a few words of Spanish yourself and use it on them. You'll find that they will be very appreciative that you've taken the time to learn a few words in their language. And if you ask them, they'll give you the correct pronounciation of a word that you may have mispronounced.
Why not speak to the others first? Keep the friendly face all the time. That may help the others to become more friendly towards you.
For those that over charge you - don't return there, and don't refer them to anyone. Not everyone is like that.
I can't say I've shared your negative experience with "Mexicans," which may actually include immigrants from places like El Salvador and Guatemala. I like to eat at really authentic, non-gringoized Mexican and Central American restaurants. In many of these environments, I'm one of the only non-Hispanic customers, and sometimes the restaurant personnel are not bilingual. For me, that has never translated into unfriendliness. I smile, gesture, point at what I need, and use a few words of fractured high school Spanish. Usually, I get a friendly smile, a warm thank you (or maybe a warm "gracias"), and good service in return.
My point: I'm not trying to start yet another debate about immigration policy and bilingualism, but my experience is that if you approach people with a friendly mindset, you're usually going to get a positive reaction. Expect the worst, and that's probably what you'll get. As for unfriendliness at major chain fast food restaurants, I see that no matter who's behind the counter. Small business owners are generally more appreciative of your business.
I relocated from Ann Arbor, MI (35 miles s.w. of Detroit) to Litchfield Park, AZ about 1 year ago. I moved to Litchfield Park because I had friends in that area and wanted to be near to people I knew, and the housing was affordable. I stayed here in 2005 for two months living on the North side (7th st and Bell) before
I'm a 31 y.o black man and I must admit that I was unaware that the black population in AZ was so little, but that in and of itself isn't an issue to me, because I've lived in some small towns in MI throughout my life. I work for a large power company here (you can probably guess which one...lol) Downtown at the corporate office, where blacks make up about .08% of the workforce and I'd have to guess that Hispanics make up about 2%. I was shocked to see so few minorities in such a large company. I'm smart enough to know how the demographical statistics have incurred. The average age of an employee here is 48! 2/3rds of our workforce is at retirement age, so many of these people came aboard when they're probably weren't alot of minorities around, and hiring practices were alot more conservative. That's cool I understand that.
Now for my biggest gripes and I'll get off the race issue. Obviously there are ALOT of Mexicans here (I didn't say hispanics, because most are really from or decedents from Mexico), and I in my opinion an overwhelmingly majority of them are the most UNFRIENDLY people I've ever come across. Most don't speak to you, don't speak back to you, don't even look at you, and they seem to be working at alot of the establishments that I shop at. I notice the small things, like when you allow a fellow driver to get over, or let someone out who's turning in front of you. Usually a driver will give a wave as to say thanks for letting me in/out. 100% of the time Mexicans will never say thanks. I know this sounds trivial, but it's just the tip of the iceberg. I realize that there are cultural differences, but I thought that manners were universal. Even if you don't speak the language, how hard is it to smile at someone or smile back. Sometimes I go to a MAJOR chain fast food restaurant and the person taking my order doesn't even speak English. I feel as though they feel like they're better than me, and I don't belong in their areas.
Once I needed some tires mounted, and asked one of my buddies to recommend a reasonably priced placed to go. He suggested a place and told me he was just there and was charged $25 to get his tires mounted, when I went They tried to charge me $60! Later when I told my buddy who's Mexican he said it's because you were black. Whites and blacks for the most part are actually pretty friendly, but I have to travel to the North side, or East to be somewhat within my own element.
This is one of many reasons why I'm moving out of the west valley, after my lease is up. As I said before I lived on the North side briefly and I really liked it, and I think if I don't move downtown near my job, I'll move back to the North Side.
-The traffic here is bad, but honestly after a year it almost seems normal. AZers seem to have difficulty merging and alot of times this is what causes some of the back-ups. When it rains out here, I try and work late.....lol Because people don't know how to drive in the rain very good. (But in their defense the roads DO get very SLIPPERY when wet)
-It seems like most of the things to do are in the East Valley, which again is another reason why I'm leaving the west Valley.
-There isn't much to do except SHOP, there are more places to take your money out here than I've ever seen lol.
-The scenery is absolutely gorgeous out here. I love the mountains in the backgrounds. I'm from Michigan where you're lucky to find a steep hill
-Hiking the mountains has been phenomenal. Going quading in the deserts is GREAT.
-The explosive growth and opportunity out here is unparallel.
Having said all that, I'm truly undecided as to how long I'll remain here, I'm getting some excellent training and learning skills that will allow me to work anywhere in the country, so I'm keeping my options open.
If any Michiganders are reading this and contemplating on relocating here, I'd say do it! Michigan's economy is in the dump right now, and it really feels good be in a employees market, rather than a employers market. I've turned down jobs here that my peers in MI would probably cut off a pinky to get.
Just wondering do you miss the seasons at all or are you happy to not be shoveling tons of snow? Do you find the summer ot be tolderable?
I don't consider people in Phoenix in general to be very friendly-- regardless of ethnicity. From my understanding, this used to be a much more friendly place back when the population was a lot smaller (like up till the early 1990s). As the population has exploded exponentially and the place has become more crowded, people have become ruder, meaner, and cruder. A lot of the bad attitude has been imported from LA, if you ask me. The same exact thing has happened to Denver over the last 15 years.
I don't consider people in Phoenix in general to be very friendly-- regardless of ethnicity. From my understanding, this used to be a much more friendly place back when the population was a lot smaller (like up till the early 1990s). As the population has exploded exponentially and the place has become more crowded, people have become ruder, meaner, and cruder. A lot of the bad attitude has been imported from LA, if you ask me. The same exact thing has happened to Denver over the last 15 years.
I agree 100%. I find rude people in every nationality and race, but I'd say mainly white people are the ones I find more rude (don't worry, I am white), especially the 16 year olds who are behind the counter just about anywhere.
The driving is very rude out here. People just don't care about others. I have driven a lot in upstate NY and it's night and day. They are some of the most courteous drivers around. They actually follow the laws because if they don't they know the troopers will catch them!
I don't consider people in Phoenix in general to be very friendly-- regardless of ethnicity. From my understanding, this used to be a much more friendly place back when the population was a lot smaller (like up till the early 1990s). As the population has exploded exponentially and the place has become more crowded, people have become ruder, meaner, and cruder. A lot of the bad attitude has been imported from LA, if you ask me. The same exact thing has happened to Denver over the last 15 years.
vegaspilgrim, I think you were the one who mentioned you're a lot younger than me? you are right about the increase in rudeness, crudeness and meanness. Unfortunately, that is true of most places in this country, now. I think the small pockets of civility exist at the cost of being affordable to those who depend on others for employment. That's because they're in smaller cities and towns where opportunities are limited. I am so sorry you will have to spend your adult life in this deteriorating environment. I would encourage you to become self sufficient work wise if you aren't already and develop "portable" skills. This is the thing we didn't do despite having the talents to do so. Stupid. Now we suffer because the world has changed and we were out of step with the changes. I've had very few regrets in life but that big one is just that. I dearly wish I could be self employed in anything.
Trudawg, I don't mean to defend anyone, however, many of the Mexicans are illegal, and they may just want to avoid eye contact, and try to be invisible.
The Mexicans are not the only ones who don't say thanks when you let them merge. But consider that perhaps in the part of Mexico where they may have been accustomed to driving, it is not customary to wave thank you.
There are so many bad drivers here that just cut you off, and they are of all races.
I would recommend that you continue to be courteous, as I get the impression that you are a courteous person, and that's why you feel bad when others are discourteous.
Don't worry about the people who can't speak English fluently. Help them along. If they're working in a restaurant that means they are trying to learn English. Maybe learn a few words of Spanish yourself and use it on them. You'll find that they will be very appreciative that you've taken the time to learn a few words in their language. And if you ask them, they'll give you the correct pronounciation of a word that you may have mispronounced.
Why not speak to the others first? Keep the friendly face all the time. That may help the others to become more friendly towards you.
For those that over charge you - don't return there, and don't refer them to anyone. Not everyone is like that.
Bill
I am a very friendly person, and I ALWAYS smile first, and that was what I was referring to when I say is it that hard to return a smile.
Believe I'm not one to make blanketed statements, I'm just sharing from my experiences. I re-read my post and it does come off a bit intolerant, and I apolagize for that.
It's just been my over-all experience that most mexicans I encounter aren't very friendly at all. I'm sure it has alot to do with culture differences, but most seem unwilling to step outside of their comfort zone. And honestly I guess I understand that to a point.
It brings the whole assimilation argument into play.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sfw1979
Just wondering do you miss the seasons at all or are you happy to not be shoveling tons of snow? Do you find the summer ot be tolderable?
I don't miss the seasons one bit. I did however miss the beutiful fall colors when I returned in November
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bill
Trudawg, I don't mean to defend anyone, however, many of the Mexicans are illegal, and they may just want to avoid eye contact, and try to be invisible.
The Mexicans are not the only ones who don't say thanks when you let them merge. But consider that perhaps in the part of Mexico where they may have been accustomed to driving, it is not customary to wave thank you.
There are so many bad drivers here that just cut you off, and they are of all races.
I would recommend that you continue to be courteous, as I get the impression that you are a courteous person, and that's why you feel bad when others are discourteous.
Don't worry about the people who can't speak English fluently. Help them along. If they're working in a restaurant that means they are trying to learn English. Maybe learn a few words of Spanish yourself and use it on them. You'll find that they will be very appreciative that you've taken the time to learn a few words in their language. And if you ask them, they'll give you the correct pronounciation of a word that you may have mispronounced.
Why not speak to the others first? Keep the friendly face all the time. That may help the others to become more friendly towards you.
For those that over charge you - don't return there, and don't refer them to anyone. Not everyone is like that.
Bill
I never really took the eyecontact/illegal thing into consideration, and that's a good point.
I do speak a little spanish my kids mom is Mexican, and I've learned throughout the years.
I don't consider people in Phoenix in general to be very friendly-- regardless of ethnicity. From my understanding, this used to be a much more friendly place back when the population was a lot smaller (like up till the early 1990s). As the population has exploded exponentially and the place has become more crowded, people have become ruder, meaner, and cruder. A lot of the bad attitude has been imported from LA, if you ask me. The same exact thing has happened to Denver over the last 15 years.
I agree, vegaspilgrim.
Rude people are not exclusive to Phoenix as that perception is fairly common with most larger cities.
Simply put, although I understand and possibly sympathize with Trudawg, if anyone wants a "small town atmosphere" . . . DO NOT CHOOSE TO LIVE IN A LARGE CITY. I personally prefer Tucson over Phoenix for that very reason.
My parents moved us to Phoenix back in 1969. It was nicer in lots of ways back then.
Some days I feel like I am in NY City with some of the rudeness and some of the crime.
Tucson is definitely much quieter. I wouldn't mind moving there, but alas...
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
unfortunately...
