Phoenix metro is getting too big IMO (Scottsdale, Avondale: tax, cost of)

[AZ_Rookie]

Originally Posted by JGMotorsport64

The standard stucco box doesn't have a waterfall feature, spa, and lush landscaping for one.

The whole point of that post is that it isn't actually cheaper to live in the suburbs despite the lower home costs. Clearly the poster isn't living in a cheap house.

How did we get from Phx metro getting too big to building up in the city vs out in rural to now cheaper in the suburbs?...

I read his post as saying, there's no benefit for him to live in an over-congested area with everyone on top of each other.

[asufan]

Originally Posted by locolife

Downtown Phoenix has added 60 in about a 3 square mile radius, downtown Gilbert has added 6 chains, albeit local chains so I'll give credit for not being national chains. But still.... surely an urban planner has spent a few moments downtown Phoenix seeing what's happening. Yeah, it's not going to turn into Chicago next week, but it's on a nice path to being way more energetic then it was. You could easily live, work, and have lots of dining/entertainment in DT Phoenix without needing a car. That was not possible when I moved here in 2002.

You're really comparing Downtown Phoenix to Downtown Gilbert? LOL. I never said Downtown Gilbert or Chandler is more "vibrant" than Phoenix (although Tempe and Scottsdale are). I was stating that Downtown Phoenix is lame as an urban core. anyone that has spent time in real cities will admit this. the fact that two small Valley suburbs have more vibrant downtown areas says it all.

[JGMotorsport64]

Originally Posted by AZ_Rookie

How did we get from Phx metro getting too big to building up in the city vs out in rural to now cheaper in the suburbs?...

I read his post as saying, there's no benefit for him to live in an over-congested area with everyone on top of each other.

The conversation was already in that direction, 27 pages later that tends to happen.


I think youre misunderstanding my post.

[AZ_Rookie]

My take on the whole thing is...

Different people have different desires... I've lived in SoCal my whole life - I've done the urban thing and the suburban thing... I have experienced quite a bit of what has been discussed in this thread... The huge draw to Phoenix (for a lot of people) is the diverse living... There are communities (that in my perception) want to be just like SoCal suburbs - there's also urban city, there's desert rural, there's horse property, there's mountain, retirement, telecommute, etc, etc.... It's a great location for lots of reasons.

It baffling to me that so often these threads turn into battles of what someone thinks is right for everyone. One person's perfect living is what others are trying to get away from... The fact that Phoenix offers a wide range of living styles is something to be embraced not changed.

Just my .02

[JGMotorsport64]

Originally Posted by AZ_Rookie

My take on the whole thing is...

Different people have different desires... I've lived in SoCal my whole life - I've done the urban thing and the suburban thing... I have experienced quite a bit of what has been discussed in this thread... The huge draw to Phoenix (for a lot of people) is the diverse living... There are communities (that in my perception) want to be just like SoCal suburbs, there's urban city, there's desert rural, there's horse property, there's mountain, retirement, telecommute, etc, etc.... It's a great location for lots of reasons.

It baffling to me that so often these threads turn into battles of what someone thinks is right for everyone. One person's perfect living is what others are trying to get away from... The fact that Phoenix offers a wide range of living styles is something to be embraced not changed.

Just my .02

The urban city is relatively lack luster which I think is the driving force behind people wanting more to live down there. It needs more people.

If you ever look at a population density map you'll notice that Phoenix ranges almost uniformly between 2.5-4K in density and then drops off immediately at the edges of the city. It's can be a monotonous city.

[FirebirdCamaro1220]

Originally Posted by JGMotorsport64

The urban city is relatively lack luster which I think is the driving force behind people wanting more to live down there. It needs more people.

If you ever look at a population density map you'll notice that Phoenix ranges almost uniformly between 2.5-4K in density and then drops off immediately at the edges of the city. It's can be a monotonous city.

Actually, from McDowell up to Bell within the city limits not countung Squaw Peak or the Phoenix Mountains has an average density of 5,800/sq mi (840,000 people in 145 sq mi). And we have quite a few 8,000ppsm-15,000ppsm census tracts in that area

[JGMotorsport64]

Originally Posted by FirebirdCamaro1220

Actually, from McDowell up to Bell within the city limits not countung Squaw Peak or the Phoenix Mountains has an average density of 5,800/sq mi (840,000 people in 145 sq mi). And we have quite a few 8,000ppsm-15,000ppsm census tracts in that area

Sure, you're right. But we're talking a tiny area in the grand scheme. I'm not insulting the Central City (I live in it), but I think its lacking is why people who live down here want others to live down here. We need a larger residential population to sustain business in the Central City, there's a reason why so many of the restaurants over here close outside of normal business hours (9-5).

An enormous and overwhelming majority of Phoenix is the same general gravel yard, stucco home, strip mall at the corner, mile x mile block, Circle K, etc.

And then due to land constraints, it abruptly ends and Reservations start.

[Valley Native]

Originally Posted by asufan

What does it matter if the "box" is stucco, brick or block? In my case, the "box" is semi custom and not surrounded by a pile of crushed rocks, but rather lush landscaping, swimming pool, spa, outdoor kitchen and covered outdoor living spaces. The schools are A+ and since there's few good jobs in the urban core, my wife has a nice short 15-20 minute morning commute to Tempe from Chandler. Mine is even shorter to my home office. Rather than hearing sirens and traffic at night I hear waterfalls and frogs. People can stroll around the neighborhood at night without having to say no to the beggars/homeless. Sorry to shatter the picture you painted. Remind me again why I should live in the Central city? Is it for the longer commute, the decaying houses or the crime?

Sounds like you have an ideal lifestyle, so why should I remind you that living in the urban core is better? In your case, suburban living is better. I clearly stated numerous times: to each his own. The free market should decide the type of development that takes place ... not the government, not overzealous NIMBYs, or anybody else. Everybody should live the way they want, just as long as my tax money doesn't support their lifestyle choices.

My statements were basically saying that just because the predominant development style has been suburban styled for many years doesn't mean everybody likes that kind of living. There is increased demand lately for infill development, and to build up the central core & revitalize the areas that were at one time dilapidated. Your vision of the central city is outdated for the most part. There are still some bad areas, but there are also many nice older historic districts that don't at all fit your description of a crime infested, homeless ridden slum.

[FirebirdCamaro1220]

Originally Posted by Valley Native

Sounds like you have an ideal lifestyle, so why should I remind you that living in the urban core is better? In your case, suburban living is better. I clearly stated numerous times: to each his own. The free market should decide the type of development that takes place ... not the government, not overzealous NIMBYs, or anybody else. Everybody should live the way they want, just as long as my tax money doesn't support their lifestyle choices.

My statements were basically saying that just because the predominant development style has been suburban styled for many years doesn't mean everybody likes that kind of living. There is increased demand lately for infill development, and to build up the central core & revitalize the areas that were at one time dilapidated. Your vision of the central city is outdated for the most part. There are still some bad areas, but there are also many nice older historic districts that don't at all fit your description of a crime infested, homeless ridden slum.

This^

Though even you have to agree that public transit needs tax money, even the NYC Subway is heavily subsidized

[Valley Native]

Originally Posted by FirebirdCamaro1220

This^

Though even you have to agree that public transit needs tax money, even the NYC Subway is heavily subsidized

Some tax money is needed for basic infrastructure as well as transportation, but the idea of forcing everybody to pay taxes for things they don't use has gotten out of hand. I know you'll disagree, but schools and public assistance are two things that come to mind. We all pay taxes in some shape or form for these things, and I dislike having my money taken from me just so parents can send their offspring to what amounts to free daycare ... or for the EBT cards & other forms of assistance just because these breeders don't have the common sense or decency to use contraception. I know this is getting off the topic, but this is what I meant when I stated that I don't care how anybody else lives just as long as they're not using my tax money for their lifestyles.