Just saw the chain gang on duty picking up litter and I thought to myself (Maricopa: crimes, lawsuits)

[sweettearose]

Originally Posted by nickluva

It just gave me a quick reminder in my head that this state has a long way to go to move forward. Arizona is just big ultra-conservative wasteland with uptight laws and extreme wackos like Sheriff Joe running around like Barney Fife. Arizona is just too damn backwards

They have chain gangs in California too. I suppose California is also a conservative wasteland? This state was one of the first to officially vote against an anti-gay/same sex marriage proposal, but you are right, chain gang presence equals conservative wasteland.

[sweettearose]

Originally Posted by silverbear

Amazingly, nickluva and I seem to agree on this one, although I'd stop short of saying that Sheriff Joe makes me want to leave town. Every city has its embarrassing public figures. Sheriff Joe is no more emblematic of Phoenix than Marion Berry was of Washington, D.C., Frank Rizzo was of Philadephia, Vincent Cianci was of Providence, or Daryl Gates was of Los Angeles. Those cities survived their petty dictators, and so will Phoenix.

Back to the main topic, having prisoners work on community projects is no big deal. I support it, and from what I've heard, the prisoners welcome the relief from the tedium of incarceration. The problem I have with Sheriff Joe's approach is that he has deliberately used rhetoric and symbols designed for maximum humiliation and degradation. "Chain gang" in an unfortunate phrase that recalls redneck sheriffs in the Deep South. Why not use a neutral term like "work crew" instead? Likewise, why the striped uniforms that recall another era? Putting prisoners to work is a great idea, but it should be about productive work and not needless degradation of those doing the work. I'm convinced that productive work lowers recidivism, but I'm skeptical that humiliation does the same.

I also think that Sheriff Joe has manipulated the whole chain gang program, like just about everything he touches, to yield maximum publicity for himself rather than maximum effectiveness in law enforcement and crime prevention.

I don't have a problem with Sheriff Joe's approach. The truth is many criminals do not mind going to prison because it's seen as an empowering act by many gang members. Many of them in their community will perceive them of being stronger or more worthy of respect because they served tie. They will go to prison and become stronger by lifting weights. They will receive tattoos and become indoctrined into prison gangs. I have a hard time disliking Sheriff Joe for taking eliminating those aspects. Sherrff Joe's approach is brilliant. He is attacking that very institution by attacking prisoner's self esteem and pride. He does that by humiliating them and making others see that prison is not cool; it's something to be mocked not celebrated as in other states. I think this speaks well of Arizona and shows that our approach is progressive and effective. Other places might try to torture or do the opposite and be apathetic but Joe has found an effective way to make their stay unpleasant without resorting to torture. Some have issues with the image but personally I think it's funny and I'm glad those criminals are enduring that as they as should since it was their lack of responsibility that got them into trouble.

I also don't equate his approach with a southern redneck image. I've seen sheriffs in Texas and Georgia. In those states, there is a lot of unreported abuse and racism; it's under the table. Sherrff Joe humiliates his prisoners and takes away their comfort but he hasn't taken away their civil rights and many free prisoners will often speak positivelly about Sheriff Joe.

[nickluva]

Originally Posted by sweettearose

They have chain gangs in California too. I suppose California is also a conservative wasteland? This state was one of the first to officially vote against an anti-gay/same sex marriage proposal, but you are right, chain gang presence equals conservative wasteland.

Hate to break it to you but Arizona is a "conservative wasteland" and once again it's not because of the "chain gang" Part of the reason is there is a large base of right-winged conservative residents who keep voting for guys like Sheriff Joe,Andrew Thomas and others in office. I vote and my vote is in the minority around here and I cannot and will not take it anymore so i'm moving to greener and more liberal pastures. You can have this state I don't like it anymore it's a beautiful place but i've had it with these ugly politics and laws they pass out here

[Greatday]

Originally Posted by nickluva

Hate to break it to you but Arizona is a "conservative wasteland" and once again it's not because of the "chain gang" Part of the reason is there is a large base of right-winged conservative residents who keep voting for guys like Sheriff Joe,Andrew Thomas and others in office. I vote and my vote is in the minority around here and I cannot and will not take it anymore so i'm moving to greener and more liberal pastures. You can have this state I don't like it anymore it's a beautiful place but i've had it with these ugly politics and laws they pass out here

Gee - I guess the Governor of the State, and the Attorney General are "conservatives" too?

[Rick Lee]

So I'm guaranteed to spend a night in jail there? Why is that? I can't think of anything I do that would land me there. I learned all my stupid lessons a while ago and behave better now that I have a wife and a lot more to lose. I've had lots of run-ins with the cops around here and in other states, all speed/car related. Still haven't gone to jail. And I've almost always been carrying a gun with me when stopped. Only once was I even asked to show my permit. Some people are arrest-prone. I'm not one of them.

[nickluva]

Okay this post has gone to 4 pages and only ONE person has some kind of understanding of what i'm trying to express here. Let me try to explain again

I see that some people on this board view Sheriff Joe as a hero and how if other county sheriff's did what he did the world would be a better place. This man is nothing more than a tyrant within a demoracy. He belittles people(criminal or not) and tries to break them down by embrassing them whenever he has a chance to. All you need to do is read about him or hear some of the stories from within. This man is cruel and harsh and evil. People have died because of his cruel treatment. This man has some serious dirt on his hands. Do you guys even know what his main goal is??? It's nothing more than to have the most populated jail in this entire country and by doing that he WILL lock anybody up even for just suspician. So all this IF YOU BREAK THE LAW talk I hear in here I just shake my head at because he and his buddy law enforcers in this county will arrest YOU too just because you're a civilian and they have some POWER. Do I have to also remind you guys of his infamous "Prositute Sting" that he, his deputies and posse members were involved in???This man is no more of a criminal than his own inmates. The hell with Sheriff Joe

Now that i've gotten that off my chest. People like Joe Arpaio, Andrew Thomas, John McCain, Dubya, Arnold and other conservatives alike are trying their best into turning this great nation of ours into a "police state". They don't want to just police criminals they want to police everybody including YOU. They like to instill fear into people so they can CONTROL you. Today they're trying to say who they don't want to come into this country(illegal immigrants from Mexico) tomorrow they're gonna want you to carry an identification card which will tell them everything about you(credit history,how much money you make,what kind of things you like to buy with your credit cards,last person you called on your cell phone,etc) and use it AGAINST you. You may think that's crazy but if we keep lettin these figures get away with their "abuse of power" tatics things like that have a chance of becoming a reality.

Again I cannot and will not tolerate this and it's about time that people like I mentioned before are VOTED out of office. DAMN RIGHT I'M VOTING IN
'08

[nickluva]

Originally Posted by Greatday

Gee - I guess the Governor of the State, and the Attorney General are "conservatives" too?

Once again from my earlier post "One Monkey Don't Stop No Show".
George W. Bush has blacks in his cabinet. And we all know that "George Bush hates black people"

[Greatday]

Originally Posted by nickluva

Once again from my earlier post "One Monkey Don't Stop No Show".
George W. Bush has blacks in his cabinet. And we all know that "George Bush hates black people"

We are not talking about Bush -

And, the examples I gave you are only a small number of very liberal elected officials in Arizona -

OBTW - Arnold? He is no conservative

[Greatday]

Originally Posted by nickluva

This man is cruel and harsh and evil.

No, he is not.

He is a tough Sheriff

He does not run a country club

And, that is why he is so popular with people in Arizona - on both sides of the political aisle.

[Huckleberry3911948]

Originally Posted by sweettearose

They have chain gangs in California too. I suppose California is also a conservative wasteland? This state was one of the first to officially vote against an anti-gay/same sex marriage proposal, but you are right, chain gang presence equals conservative wasteland.

we dont like to call them that here. more like, terrible misunderstanding 12 step meeting field trips.