Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
So some of you may know me as a rather pessimistic regular on the Arizona forums. I'm a born and raised Phoenician from West Valley, particularly far northern Peoria and Glendale.
One of my qualms with Phoenix is that, while I do believe Phoenix has a lot of potential to be a better city, it is not tapping into that potential. Phoenix tends to follow a market formula like many other cities have done and I don't think this is the way to go for our city.
We live in one of the most unique ecosystems of the world, the Sonora desert, and traditionally the Southwest is home to some of the most unique cuisine and architecture. Phoenix offers a ton of lakes which most people don't even know exist, or places like Flagstaff. We have some of the best skies and stargazing in the country, with one of the highest per capita numbers of observatories (I believe we might be the highest with Hawaii coming second) due to our big open skies. We even have swamps here, known as cienegas, that exist in Southern Arizona. We have lots of ghost towns and arguably some of the best hiking in the country.
What I fail to see out of our city is to market ourselves in our unique location of the country. We build the same apartments, the same freeways, the same housing... but not really advertise ourselves in a positive light. It's as if we just want to be mediocre.
When I look at the cities that are currently booming with high-paying jobs in many ways they are quite different from Phoenix. Let's name a few of these, shall we? Seattle. Austin. Bay Area. NYC. Denver. What separates these five from us?
- NYC has always been a unique city for being the most urban, and this attracts urbanites. No other city in the US compares to NYC in offering this amenity. Many have argued that if other cities offered this urban lifestyle, they would rather live there than NYC.
- Austin. Known as a "liberal city in a red sea", Austin prides itself on being a state capital of a very populous state. Austin is arguably in the one pretty part of Texas other than El Paso IMO with hills (very rare for Texas, no?) and greenery. Austin probably got its start with the university and has marketed itself to be a yuppie-friendly urban place, even if it was not at first. It is now beginning to fit that marketing.
- Bay Area. San Francisco has always attracted professionals probably due to large variety of weather in the Bay alone and density that come close to NYC, but not quite. San Francisco has a large array of exceptional higher education and managed to keep those graduates (something Arizona as a whole is not as good at). The Bay has been a center of culture with the hippie culture and been a center for art for quite some time. The Bay has been successful at diversifying its industries from finance to art to tech, it is dubbed the "NYC of the West" for many reasons.
- Seattle. Known for exceptional outdoors, Seattle offers beautiful pines, snow-capped mountains, and a large sound for water activities. Seattle's attractive central location to maritime/ocean activities and mountains make it desirable to many outdoor fanatics. In fact Seattle is arguably the only Western city suitable for maritime activities in large amounts. Seattle's rainy season keeps it green throughout the year, yet not so humid, which is desirable to many of people who want less humidity but want greenery comparable to the East at the same time. Seattle got its start from being culturally unique, for being "grungy" during the 90s, this was capitalized on and practically destroyed by yuppies who wanted to be around this culture but didn't manage to keep the grunge alive in Seattle. A similar thing happened in the Bay.
- Denver. It has marketed itself for its mountain activities. It is of no shock that Colorado as a whole has exceptional mountain activities. It offers some of the tallest mountains in the US and potentially the most ski resorts in the country, many of which are not terribly far from Denver. Denver is known for its laid-back culture, friendly for stoners (something big for us youngins), which sets it out from the other four cities as I have listed here for those who want a healthy live/work balance and a "live and let live" vibe. Denver's more casual environment as a whole (comparable to ours) managed to attract those who want similar progressive and outdoors of Seattle, a bit more sunshine and more affordability. Denver has also been big economically as a logistics port between the west and the east, with easy flight connections to the rest of the nation and a big center for federal government jobs.
I am not here to make Phoenix seem weak to these cities. I think Phoenix could EASILY compare to these cities (except NYC honestly) if we improved our city amenities. I think our outdoors speak for themselves, though we could advertise on it some more.
So now that you read through these five descriptions, I hoped you noted some similarities and differences between our metro and theirs. What stood out to you?
To me one of the biggest differences is that in most of these areas (Bay, Seattle, NYC) offerED (gentrification ruined most of this) a unique culture. It is of no surprise people like to be surrounded by culture, particularly a culture they enjoy, participate in, and identify with. As far as I'm concerned, Phoenix has not ever been the home of a cultural movement. Even one of the biggest culturally unique things I can think of (dirt bike bros) of Arizona is actually more centered around southern California around the Corona area. Even then not many people identify or appreciate motocross in large amounts, and it's not unique to the Southwest like in many ways NASCAR is unique to the South.
Another big difference is urbanity. These cities have may not been urban at the beginning (NYC was though) but have developed upwards over time. In places like the Bay it was out of necessity, but in the others it is out of pure desire of the populace. Phoenix still prefers to sprawl or try to market/advertise our more dense areas. Like Tempe, Old Town or Downtown. We do have urban areas, not quite to the extent of these cities right now, but how do we think Denver and Austin started to become more dense when they still have land to sprawl out on?
The key is that while these all are seeing similar levels of success in drawing the high-paying population, they have very different ways of achieving that goal. None of them followed the same formula in doing that.
So what it comes down to is, what would be a unique formula that we can use to improve Phoenix? What can we do to attract higher-paying jobs and more industries? What are your solutions to answer this?
Phoenix has, slowly I think, been developing its urban areas and transportation. But I still think we are missing something, and that is the unique element to set us out. So what do you propose?
Yep urbanization is huge! Green, if it can be more grassy it'd be a huge draw.
I wish there was more opportunity for the well educated... of course there are plenty but even more would bring in even more talent. For instance there is no university teaching hospital in the valley. No major financial institutions headquartered here. City and state officials really ought to do a better job.
Time. Southwestern culture is about longevity. Phoenix doesn't have any. Tucson and Albuquerqueare pueblos. Phoenix is the site of an ancient canal site and a formerly explosive desert farming area. A lot of the people aren't native and lack roots. It's the nature of the entire sunbelt.
Therefore, what does Phoenix lack? The answer is an identity. In a way it's a mash up of Southern California and the Southwest. In its own way it's a multi nodal sprawl monster.
The answer isn't new sky scrapers, the answer is preservation of gems like the Westward Ho and unique additions. Additionally future buildings should accentuate our natural surrounds not "beautify" them. But you have to make it "cool" to do so. Tucson, for example, is proud that it preserves shacky mud huts. But unlike Phoenix all that preservation has created identity and unique experiences. There's just nothing to identify with here as a community.
Yep urbanization is huge! Green, if it can be more grassy it'd be a huge draw.
I wish there was more opportunity for the well educated... of course there are plenty but even more would bring in even more talent. For instance there is no university teaching hospital in the valley. No major financial institutions headquartered here. City and state officials really ought to do a better job.
I don't agree with greenery honestly. Phoenix is not suitable for large amounts of greenery and we will suffer for doing so in the long-run. By this I mean grassy. There are ways Phoenix can be less brown, and this is planting desert-friendly plants. For example cacti and palo verdes are very green naturally, belong here and do not hurt our environment like most plants do. Many palms also thrive here. If you want green you shouldn't live here as a rule of thumb. This is one of the things where Phoenix is unique and should capitalize on. However even with large investment in cacti, palo verdes, etc. we will still have that brown undertone with no grass that will forever make us a brown city. We just aren't hospitable for grass on large scales at our population. Many people, Millennials my age view cacti as what we call an "aesthetic". LOTS of people like cacti, we should capitalize on that given we live in a cacti forest by all technicalities (this should be given a unique name).
There should be more opportunities for the well-educated I agree. U of A just put in a medical school in Downtown but I don't think it functions as a hospital and only pushes out around 40 graduates a year (so it's a small medical school). ASU is expanding significantly. The problem is that we just aren't retaining these educated populations as most of them just go back to California (that's the biggest demographic of these schools honestly). These college graduates are very educated and we are home to the largest education centers too counting GCU, University of Phoenix and ASU are all in the top #4 (other is OSU in Ohio). So what can we do to keep these graduates? What can we do to attract industries? I don't think the conservative method works anymore, as you can see by the cities I listed, NONE of them operate under a conservative tax method. Except Austin partially for being a blue city in a red state. But Austin stands out of being blue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JGMotorsport64
Time. Southwestern culture is about longevity. Phoenix doesn't have any. Tucson and Albuquerque are pueblos. Phoenix is the site of an ancient canal site and a formerly explosive desert farming area. A lot of the people aren't native and lack roots. It's the nature of the entire sunbelt.
Therefore, what does Phoenix lack? The answer is an identity. In a way it's a mash up of Southern California and the Southwest. In its own way it's a multi nodal sprawl monster.
The answer isn't new sky scrapers, the answer is preservation of gems like the Westward Ho and unique additions. Additionally future buildings should accentuate our natural surrounds not "beautify" them. But you have to make it "cool" to do so. Tucson, for example, is proud that it preserves shacky mud huts. But unlike Phoenix all that preservation has created identity and unique experiences. There's just nothing to identify with here as a community.
I absolutely agree that we do not have a unique identity/culture here in the Phoenix metro. I don't think developing the same luxury apartments is the way to go either. We should preserve whatever history we have. I also think we as a population should look towards culturally unique staples and support them. Let's look at our neighbor New Mexico. One of their big things is green chile. It's like on everything. Sonoran food has its own history and we should work towards making Sonoran food stand out from Tex-Mex in particular and other Mexican ethnic foods like Chihuahuan and Baja.
I think it would help in making neighborhoods stand out more. Many of our developments in suburbia and urban areas are developed the exact same way and Phoenix is WELL known for this. The good thing is that it makes things cheaper. However, it doesn't create distinct neighborhoods and identities. It doesn't attract varying lifestyles that help foster more culture.
TLDR....basically in my opinion, Phoenix is a mix of Texas, California, some Midwest and intermountain west Colorado culture. It shouldn't try to be exclusively a culture to one area.
The main thing I think Phoenix lacks is a premier university particularly a great graduate school. To be honest, Phoenix is progressing amazingly well anyway but if they could have a great university, perhaps a great engineering IT university, it would be that much better.
TLDR....basically in my opinion, Phoenix is a mix of Texas, California, some Midwest and intermountain west Colorado culture. It shouldn't try to be exclusively a culture to one area.
The thing is that is not working. Why is Colorado it's own culture but Arizona isn't? The thing is is that it should be if it wants to attract people to live in ARIZONA. If people can get all the culture and things we offer as a CITY elsewhere because we choose not to stand out (like people always compare Phoenix to Dallas on a regular basis, and Dallas is doing better as a whole), they will go elsewhere.
People move to Colorado to have the lifestyle of Colorado. What we have is Arizona is not setting itself apart as its own identity, and it's why Phoenix will never really be anything more than just the random city most people forget about on occasion. I'm saying we could do this easily because where we are, we aren't the Midwest, Arizona has a ton of unique offerings so it's pathetic that we don't capitalize on this.
People don't seem to be attracted just to general Americana culture like the Midwest, if they did it would be booming. There are cold places that are booming so I don't want to hear that it's because it's cold in the Midwest. Colorado is having a stoner/outdoor junkie MOVEMENT, the Bay Area had a hippie MOVEMENT, Seattle had the grunge MOVEMENT, Portland is having a hipster MOVEMENT. So why can't Phoenix?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tall Traveler
The main thing I think Phoenix lacks is a premier university particularly a great graduate school. To be honest, Phoenix is progressing amazingly well anyway but if they could have a great university, perhaps a great engineering IT university, it would be that much better.
ASU and U of A have very good programs in selective fields. For example U of A has one of the best IT programs in the country. U of A's IT program ranks consistently in the top 3 or so through our business school. But even if we did there's nothing to keep those graduates here, they would just take that talent elsewhere.
you say "stand out from the crowd" like it's a GOOD thing!.....
just sayin' !!
It is a good thing. Conformity is boring.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hschlick84
TLDR....basically in my opinion, Phoenix is a mix of Texas, California, some Midwest and intermountain west Colorado culture. It shouldn't try to be exclusively a culture to one area.
It's not really anything like Texas or Colorado honestly.
you say "stand out from the crowd" like it's a GOOD thing!.....
just sayin' !!
Well I mean we complain about not getting high-paying innovative industries and innovation is definitely the antonym of blending in, that's why it's innovative. Creative and innovative people do not like conformity.
Personally I love the diversity of what our country brings us and I hate that so many people want all of the US and, some people, the whole world to be the same way. We should pride ourselves on our differences, it is what makes the world a great place. And Phoenix being a Dallas and Los Angeles 2.0 is not a good thing in my opinion. We can be something innovative, and better!
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
