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I'd normally agree with what you stated about urban living not being the norm, but we can say the same about other sprawling cities/metros, such as Austin, Dallas, Houston, San Diego, Atlanta, etc. Most of these also grew rapidly in roughly the same time frame as Phoenix did, and largely by way of outward sprawl. But look at the downtown areas of each of them: they have notable skylines and plentiful amenities (even San Diego with their height limits).
We can have both sprawling development and a tall, vibrant urban core. No reason why it has to be one way or the other because many other large cities are exactly that way. It seems there are too many generalizations about why people move to certain cities, especially Phoenix. We have nearly 5 million people in the metro area. Many transplants come from different walks of life, and have various reasons for their moves. Not everybody relocates for sunshine or outdoor lifestyles. As a native, I certainly don't reside here for those reasons!
I don't think too many people reside here only for sunshine and outdoor lifestyles. Most people reside where homes, jobs, healthcare, and other economic opportunities exist. All of which are plentiful here. Cultural amenities (ranging from museums to live music and all in between), pro=sports, major events (maybe one of the best major event cities in the country?).
What is it you think Phoenix is so sorely lacking, besides taller buildings.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OUgrad09
Urban living is still a growing trend in Arizona. It’s not the norm yet, which is why you’re not seeing a plethora of skyscraper residential towers. It’s not really part of the city’s DNA yet. People for the most part that move to Phoenix like their own space, which is why you’re getting SFH sprawl in the west and east valley. Whether it’s the city council being against height or developers questioning the ROI on building a tall residential tower, several factors could be at play. I get that local urbanophiles might be jealous of other cities skylines, but again, that doesn’t mean Phoenix doesn’t have an identity. It just doesn’t have an urban identity yet.
I'm not sure tall buildings and busy urban core is what drives people to Phoenix. This February is the first February in a while where I didn't spend a week or more in Phoenix area. I'm usually in PV/Scottsdale, but gosh darn it if I couldn't look at those hills and mountains for a bit longer.
And, is half of California living in Phoenix now? I heard more Kim Kardashian style vocal fry than I care to admit.
I don't think too many people reside here only for sunshine and outdoor lifestyles. Most people reside where homes, jobs, healthcare, and other economic opportunities exist. All of which are plentiful here. Cultural amenities (ranging from museums to live music and all in between), pro=sports, major events (maybe one of the best major event cities in the country?).
Yes, the economic opportunities and big city amenities are almost always going to be the first priority for working age people. THEN, they look at things like weather and outdoor/recreational lifestyles to decide which particular locale to settle. And for people who value those things, Phoenix will continue to be a popular destination.
Yes, the economic opportunities and big city amenities are almost always going to be the first priority for working age people. THEN, they look at things like weather and outdoor/recreational lifestyles to decide which particular locale to settle. And for people who value those things, Phoenix will continue to be a popular destination.
Yes, you're preaching to the choir on this point both aspects are really important to me. I think Phoenix has a super unique combo of big city amenities and outdoor lifestyle.
I love having things like this right in the city/metro area.
I don't think too many people reside here only for sunshine and outdoor lifestyles. Most people reside where homes, jobs, healthcare, and other economic opportunities exist. All of which are plentiful here. Cultural amenities (ranging from museums to live music and all in between), pro=sports, major events (maybe one of the best major event cities in the country?).
These things are essential to a thriving city, and should be the main reasons for moving here, but you'll be surprised how many people have proudly stated they've relocated primarily for the weather & the outdoors. Their mentality is rather mind boggling because they seem to think most everybody else is here for the same reasons. Phoenix certainly has all the things you mentioned, but it's largely the local & national media that have promoted sunshine & desert scenery as our main attractions, and that has a way of giving us an image which is skewed from reality.
Quote:
Originally Posted by locolife
What is it you think Phoenix is so sorely lacking, besides taller buildings.
For one thing: corporate HQs. The Phoenix area has 8 Fortune 500 companies, which is a slight improvement from previous years ... however, many other cities outnumber us in this category (see link below). Can you think of any legitimate reasons why so many other metros are attractive for corporations, but we're not as much? Phoenix is definitely a regional business hub, but we're largely overlooked on a national & global scale.
One other thing we're lacking is fun amenities, and year round tourism (both go hand in hand). Even to this day, we hear the same old story about how Phoenix is a short distance from Vegas & southern CA. In other words, we miss out on all that tourism revenue because it's diverted to those other areas. Granted, we have seasonal tourism & large scale events which occur mainly in the winter & spring, but we need more permanent attractions (other than outdoor stuff) which bring people here all 12 months.
These things are essential to a thriving city, and should be the main reasons for moving here, but you'll be surprised how many people have proudly stated they've relocated primarily for the weather & the outdoors. Their mentality is rather mind boggling because they seem to think most everybody else is here for the same reasons. Phoenix certainly has all the things you mentioned, but it's largely the local & national media that have promoted sunshine & desert scenery as our main attractions, and that has a way of giving us an image which is skewed from reality.
For one thing: corporate HQs. The Phoenix area has 8 Fortune 500 companies, which is a slight improvement from previous years ... however, many other cities outnumber us in this category (see link below). Can you think of any legitimate reasons why so many other metros are attractive for corporations, but we're not as much? Phoenix is definitely a regional business hub, but we're largely overlooked on a national & global scale.
One other thing we're lacking is fun amenities, and year round tourism (both go hand in hand). Even to this day, we hear the same old story about how Phoenix is a short distance from Vegas & southern CA. In other words, we miss out on all that tourism revenue because it's diverted to those other areas. Granted, we have seasonal tourism & large scale events which occur mainly in the winter & spring, but we need more permanent attractions (other than outdoor stuff) which bring people here all 12 months.
People say all kinds of things, what this really means is that the basics we're all met and the weather/outdoor access was an important factor to them picking Phoenix over other places.
Statistically speaking I don't understand how tourism is lacking, the metro in the top 10 list for most hotel rooms in the country and it's a large economic impact for the metro area. I'm not sure why you want a tourism dominated economy when you're also saying we need to focus on more fortune 500 HQs. Note that Vegas, as a tourism mecca, has very few Fortune 500 HQs. Same with LA and Orlando.
I don't feel like I run out of fun amenities in Phoenix, will I go catch a show in Vegas that appears nowhere else sometimes? Sure. Will I go to Disney/Universal if I'm in LA? Yeah. But no shortage of things here and it's only expanding more with the billion dollar theme/water park is under construction in Glendale, Cannon Beach surf park in Gilbert, and it appears the Talking Stick entertainment district is also going to be expanding again, I know one new amentity there will be pop-stroke.
As for Fortune 500 HQs, as you said we're moving up. As one of the youngest large metros I guess we're doing okay. I know you like to point out where we fall behind but San Diego, Vegas, San Antonio, Austin, Salt Lake have have fewer F-500 HQs than PHX. I find it hard to say that Phoenix is nothing but a "regional economy" when we own the majority share of semi-conductor investment activity in the US at over $60 billion.
Statistically speaking I don't understand how tourism is lacking, the metro in the top 10 list for most hotel rooms in the country and it's a large economic impact for the metro area. I'm not sure why you want a tourism dominated economy when you're also saying we need to focus on more fortune 500 HQs. Note that Vegas, as a tourism mecca, has very few Fortune 500 HQs. Same with LA and Orlando.
Phoenix can be a national & global leader in business & technology, as well as a year round tourist destination. Doesn't have to be one or the other. We don't have to be "tourism dominated", but we certainly have the potential to be more than we currently are in both corporate business & visitor attractions. Our seasonal tourism is a large part of the economy, but I see no reason why it can't expand to all 4 seasons. The upcoming resort & theme park in the west Valley might help somewhat, but we can & should have more to offer on a larger scale. This doesn't mean we need another Disney or Universal theme park ... in fact, I think we should be a little more innovative than that. As an example, observe what places like Dubai & Singapore have for international tourism.
Quote:
Originally Posted by locolife
As for Fortune 500 HQs, as you said we're moving up. As one of the youngest large metros I guess we're doing okay. I know you like to point out where we fall behind but San Diego, Vegas, San Antonio, Austin, Salt Lake have have fewer F-500 HQs than PHX. I find it hard to say that Phoenix is nothing but a "regional economy" when we own the majority share of semi-conductor investment activity in the US at over $60 billion.
I point out where we fall behind because we should be expanding our horizons even further (and in fact, we should have been more aggressive years ago, considering our high growth rate). Since we can't change the past, it's all the more reason to step on the accelerator & think/act bigger. Case in point: you listed 5 other metros with fewer Fortune 500s, but all them are smaller in population than Phoenix. We need to be looking at equal sized or larger metros (Dallas, Houston, Atlanta, and I hesitate to say, even the Bay Area) to find out what makes them so attractive for company HQs. After all, we continue to grow at a fairly rapid pace to where we will soon be the size of what they currently are.
We are improving in regard to investment in the technology industry, but what about other industries that are just as important (finance, manufacturing, pharmaceuticals, insurance, etc.)? Charles Schwab recently moved their HQs out of San Francisco, but didn't even consider relocating to Phoenix, and instead went to the Dallas area. This is just one example. Notice how Texas is home to a plethora of established corporations, and many others that have relocated. In regard to companies like Schwab, USAA, Wells Fargo, etc., the Phoenix area is a significant regional hub, but not enough on a national & global scale.
These things are essential to a thriving city, and should be the main reasons for moving here, but you'll be surprised how many people have proudly stated they've relocated primarily for the weather & the outdoors. Their mentality is rather mind boggling because they seem to think most everybody else is here for the same reasons.
I moved from the boring Midwest to the West for outdoor reasons. That was my #1 reason. Work wasn't a concern since I work in IT (remotely) and I can get a job doing that in any part of the country. I'm more active and therefore have a healthier lifestyle here than back East. I love hiking in town and in others areas of AZ and the West in general, that's my thing.
Last edited by timothyaw; 03-04-2023 at 12:20 PM..
... Note that Vegas, as a tourism mecca, has very few Fortune 500 HQs.
Las Vegas has been grappling with diversifying its economy for DECADES from being primarily tourism dominated. They have made small steps over the years, but they will always be a predominately tourism based economy. What they're trying to do is diversity more so that when, not if, when the next downturn happens it won't be so bad. They would love to have our diversified economy.
Phoenix can be a national & global leader in business & technology, as well as a year round tourist destination. Doesn't have to be one or the other. We don't have to be "tourism dominated", but we certainly have the potential to be more than we currently are in both corporate business & visitor attractions. Our seasonal tourism is a large part of the economy, but I see no reason why it can't expand to all 4 seasons. The upcoming resort & theme park in the west Valley might help somewhat, but we can & should have more to offer on a larger scale. This doesn't mean we need another Disney or Universal theme park ... in fact, I think we should be a little more innovative than that. As an example, observe what places like Dubai & Singapore have for international tourism.
I point out where we fall behind because we should be expanding our horizons even further (and in fact, we should have been more aggressive years ago, considering our high growth rate). Since we can't change the past, it's all the more reason to step on the accelerator & think/act bigger. Case in point: you listed 5 other metros with fewer Fortune 500s, but all them are smaller in population than Phoenix. We need to be looking at equal sized or larger metros (Dallas, Houston, Atlanta, and I hesitate to say, even the Bay Area) to find out what makes them so attractive for company HQs. After all, we continue to grow at a fairly rapid pace to where we will soon be the size of what they currently are.
We are improving in regard to investment in the technology industry, but what about other industries that are just as important (finance, manufacturing, pharmaceuticals, insurance, etc.)? Charles Schwab recently moved their HQs out of San Francisco, but didn't even consider relocating to Phoenix, and instead went to the Dallas area. This is just one example. Notice how Texas is home to a plethora of established corporations, and many others that have relocated. In regard to companies like Schwab, USAA, Wells Fargo, etc., the Phoenix area is a significant regional hub, but not enough on a national & global scale.
Denver has more than us and they have like two million less in the metro than we do lol
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