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Old 11-15-2019, 12:12 PM
 
Location: Gilbert, AZ
1,695 posts, read 1,279,811 times
Reputation: 3705

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Old 11-17-2019, 03:39 AM
 
2,041 posts, read 1,527,855 times
Reputation: 1420
Phoenix is such a new city. What is there to preserve?
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Old 11-17-2019, 07:33 AM
 
4,222 posts, read 3,742,418 times
Reputation: 4588
Quote:
Originally Posted by KoNgFooCj View Post
Phoenix is such a new city. What is there to preserve?

Have you never been here? There's a lot to preserve the most important of which lately has been our open space as developers push to build further into the mountain preserves along with that are buildings from the 1800's and early 1900's and unique homes such as the Wright House in Arcadia built in the 50s. The former Montis building in Tempe is from the 1870's, the Mill on Mill Ave is also from the 1800s I believe, and Gilbert, Chandler and Phoenix all also have buildings from the 1800s near their downtown areas.
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Old 11-17-2019, 09:04 AM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
6,406 posts, read 8,997,048 times
Reputation: 8507
Quote:
Originally Posted by whippany5 View Post
Politically I think Phoenix is like where I live. I get it.
This is what we've waited a decade to hear. Thank you.
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Old 11-17-2019, 09:53 AM
 
Location: SW OK (AZ Native)
24,318 posts, read 13,170,211 times
Reputation: 10572
Quote:
Originally Posted by omle View Post
OMG! Your post hit close to my heart!

I love the d*uchE bags in Scottsdale around Shea that are SHOCKED I TELL YOU SHOCKED that there is an air park there! And, no...not talking about the ones that built BEFORE 1980! THE ONES THAT PURCASHED REAL PROPERTY SINCE THE AIRPORT WAS THERE.

Was there are key words.

Hint to the winers: Don't buy property near an air port!
I learned to fly at Scottsdale (SDL) and there were protests followed by lawsuits when the FAA, DOT and city were planning to expand the runway from 4800 feet in length in the late 1970s. It DID get done , lengthened to 8250) but the traffic pattern at SDL is such that it doesn't intrude too much. When SDL was originally started it was WAYYYY out in the boondocks (come to think of it, we had a few boondocker parties nearby in the desert when I was in HS) as it had been a British training field in WW II, and was then part of Thunderbird Academy, owned by the Seventh Day Adventists. Once people started moving in, the threats to the airport started, especially when traffic counts started to increase.

Look at https://www.historicaerials.com/viewer and type in 33° 37' 12.68" N / 111° 54' 59.98" W or 33.620189 / -111.916660 for coordinates, and look at the various overhead images to see how the airport has changed since the imagery first was available.

Problem is, no amount of logic works. You can say "The airport was here since 1942, so what did you expect?" but it falls on deaf NIMBY ears.

I was an instructor in the F-16 for an assignment at Luke AFB in the 90s. When we took off to the northeast (runway 3) we had a specific ground track we had to fly if the weather was good enough to fly in daytime visual conditions, which was almost all the time. We turned short of the domed gym at Dysart school and climbed rapidly to minimize the noise over El Mirage and Sun City as we headed toward the airspace and ranges to the northwest or south. However, the noise contours, which are part of an AICUZ (Air Installation Compatible Use Zone) planning process, didn't stop developers from proposing a 200+ home development west of Litchfield Park and south of Indian School, UNDERNEATH the departure corridor for runways 21. Palm Valley II would have subjected people underneath to noise Monday-Friday from 7 AM to midnight. When do people look at new homes? Weekends. When Luke isn't flying. So they're not aware of the noise and their real estate disclosures are largely ignored. The USAF and FAA sued to keep the development contained, from a safety standpoint, with help from the AZ Congressional delegation.

I had a wing commander who once said, regarding noise complaints at the airfield, that the solution was for that person to go to Ace Hardware or Home Depot, and buy a "FOR SALE BY OWNER" sign and put it in his or her yard. Funny, yes, but impractical, as the problem remains. Burlington, Vermont solved the noise issue for their upcoming ANG F-35 arrivals by turning adjacent land into wildlife conservation areas... no building nearby. However, it doesn't work for the busiest fighter base in the world. (Note: The busiest training base in the world at the time closed in the 90s for encroachment, both on the ground and due to airspace congestion, Williams AFB, east of Chandler)

Someone mentioned the 4th gen (F-15, F-16, F/A-18) versus 5th gen (F-22, F-35) comparison for gas mileage. It's true, like comparing a Mustang from 2000 with one today, better mileage, fewer emissions, more thrust, less consumption.
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Old 11-17-2019, 02:21 PM
 
2,775 posts, read 5,731,512 times
Reputation: 5095
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bondurant View Post
This is what we've waited a decade to hear. Thank you.

Lot of people "speaking" to ghosts here.
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Old 11-21-2019, 10:12 AM
 
Location: New Hampshire
101 posts, read 96,890 times
Reputation: 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by Burning Madolf View Post

Lot of people "speaking" to ghosts here.
Lol ahah I didn’t even notice. Oh well... now I get the graveyard hand...
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Old 11-22-2019, 10:30 AM
 
Location: Phoenix Metro Area
720 posts, read 735,611 times
Reputation: 860
For some who moved here 20+ years ago they thought they were getting away from the "urban lifestyle" to a more peaceful spacious "back to nature" sort of thing - blame that movie - "City Slickers" lol - anyway - that was my vision when I moved here early 90s - big difference now - only I wished I invested in a lot of the land that is now $$$$ lol I don't fight progress!
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Old 11-23-2019, 08:09 AM
 
4,222 posts, read 3,742,418 times
Reputation: 4588
Quote:
Originally Posted by smoochaz View Post
For some who moved here 20+ years ago they thought they were getting away from the "urban lifestyle" to a more peaceful spacious "back to nature" sort of thing - blame that movie - "City Slickers" lol - anyway - that was my vision when I moved here early 90s - big difference now - only I wished I invested in a lot of the land that is now $$$$ lol I don't fight progress!

Right? Had I invested in properties downtown when I moved here I'd be sitting really nice today... Oh well, I'd much rather see Phoenix grow up then further out so I'm all for urbanization.
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Old 11-23-2019, 09:46 AM
 
Location: Chandler, AZ
3,285 posts, read 2,667,197 times
Reputation: 8225
Quote:
Originally Posted by YAZ View Post
I have a problem with folks that "buy" in an area then want to change the neighborhood to suit their needs. I don't have a problem with folks that try to stop certain "developments" from altering their lives.
This.

I bought into a neighborhood of large, detached single family homes. I welcome neighbors who want to live in that neighborhood. I do not welcome those who want to bring "density". I do not want apartments or projects next door. Nor, frankly, do I want row houses containing people who make $40K and drive beaters. There are already neighborhoods that are right for those folks. Mine isn't it. Move on.
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