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I know some natives and Phoenix lovers hate seeing these statistics over and over...I too get annoyed but afterward come to a realization that they do need to be discussed even if they are annoying and consistent. There have been too many threads like this to count, I've posted statistics to the contrary of negative statistics, or stats that clear up some of the misinformation but after a while a new thread pops up asking the same questions. So here is some information that I've learned over the years about our country, Arizona, and Phoenix:
To ignore illegal immigration/certain minority population (disenfranchisement) issues is ignorant on both left or right extremes. Using illegals/certain minorities as a "scapegoat" is wrong, but not labeling those groups as a major issue is also wrong. For instance, the Native American population in Arizona is the second largest in the nation in numbers and percentage after Oklahoma and the illegal immigrant/1st generation LEGAL immigrant population in Arizona is also a huge number. Both of those two groups have the highest teen pregnancy rates, dropout rates, child mortality rates, obesity rates, alcoholism rates, diabetic rates, and on and on... I know it isn't very PC for a "white" person to say this so I will.
Sometimes I wonder if more social programs and assistance for people in these situations would improve their standard of living; often, as statistics point out, social welfare does increase the living standards of the poor BUT it also "traps" them into the cycle of that system...
If you take the time to look at those statistics you should be able to extrapolate an interesting dichotomy that exists in this state regarding those different categories. With education, much of the "failures" in Arizona regarding schools deal with the groups mentioned above. When you take into account that urban school districts in Arizona rank higher than the national averages you should start to wonder about school rankings. Almost ALL major cities rank worse than metro Phoenix cities (including Phoenix), Flagstaff and Tucson (where most Arizonans live) in educational attainment, graduation rates, teen pregnancy rates, etc. Boston, NYC, Chicago, Detroit, Philadelphia, Newark, Houston, Minneapolis, Los Angeles, and on and on all have graduation rates below 40%...The urban cities in Arizona (each and every one) have a 60% graduation rate or better. Mesa has the highest rate of graduation in the nation for cities over 100,000 in population at 71%. All this information has been posted on city data threads, just do a search in the forum and you'll find all the post regarding these statistics.
Death by handguns:
If one looks into the statistics posted another interesting "tale of two citings" may be noticed...17% of murders in Arizona are committed using a weapon...what does this mean exactly? Well, more information is need to find out why there is a discrepancy with these pieces of information.
Best states to live:
Arizona is ranked 36th according to the stats posted. The "formula" for this ranking is based on "44 factors all given equal weight. One of those factors being median income...ok so obviously many states will be higher than Arizona since the cost of living is also substantially higher in those states ranked as "best states to live in." Compare average and median home prices/taxes/grocery bills/utility payments/etc over most of those states above Arizona and you'll understand this "ranking" better. For comparison, look at the "amount" ranking of Arizona and the top ranked state and note the difference...is it huge in your opinion considering the higher cost of living outside of Arizona?
Personal income:
Read above...note, so far in 2009 Phoenix leads the nation for highest wage increases...
Child death rates:
Similar to the issues related to education; read into which families are most burdened by this tragedy. This is one category we MUST all consider vital as Americans...no matter the child's background we must address this. That said, Arizona is in a unique position compared to most states because of these circumstances so we must also keep that in mind. Furthermore, one of the largest contributors of child mortality is actually an Arizona "luxury" staple and part of our leisurely lifestyle; the swimming pool (water in general)! Most of these accidents happen in solid neighborhoods and to good families.
The health index:
This one is the most skewed and discrepancy ridden categories. Cancer rates, obesity rates, HIV/AIDS rates, abortion rates, and on and on are low in Arizona. In those same statistics posted, the rates of diseases in Arizona are near the bottom of the groups yet the health index points in another direction. Furthermore, Arizona scores high for exercise rates...there are probably other factors considered in this category and I'd like to know what they are.
Last edited by fcorrales80; 11-01-2009 at 10:48 PM..
Another thing to note, since many are complaining of the sprawl and lack of urban concentration in Phoenix, is the growing core(s) of the metro region. Phoenix actually ranks as the 8th MOST job concentrated city/metro area in the nation! Over 25% of metro Phoenix jobs are concentrated within 3 miles of downtown Phoenix. 75.8% of ALL metro Phoenix jobs are within 10 miles of downtown.
Of course the suburbs saw a faster growth rate than downtown during the years of the study but in the nearly 4 years since the study downtown and surrounding area has actually grown and is the only area showing real growth through this recession. This is good news all around for Phoenix because it shows that there is a workable concentration of people in the core that can be linked by public transit and that the city is in the position to grow more urban amenities. There were many who believed light rail would be a GIGANTIC failure in Phoenix when in fact it is the nation's most successful start-up.
Furthermore, Phoenix IS in a unique position to capitalize on this concentration figure and use this recession as a "defibrillator" for jump starting the city's and region's economy; as funny as that sounds, most cities with revitalized downtowns can link the development or redevelopment to a recession. This was exactly the way cities like Portland, Seattle, San Diego, Denver, and even Boston and NYC "salvaged" their most urban cores and created gems. Phoenix is next... Why do I believe this? Well because the vacancy rate in downtown Phoenix is the lowest in the state and among the nation's largest cities with a 14.7% office vacancy rate even with the current new construction. Anything below 15% is seen as "healthy." During this same time, suburban office development has declined and suburban office vacancy rates in Scottsdale, far NE Phoenix, etc are well over 20%. This is very reminiscent of those cities mentioned above and a renewed interest in a healthy urban core.
Quote:
The Phoenix area’s employment base is sprawling at one of the fastest rates in the nation with the largest suburban employment growth among major markets.
A new report by the Brookings Institution found that between 1998 and 2006 the region saw 8.5 percent job growth in locations more than 10 miles from downtown Phoenix. Jobs within three miles of downtown Phoenix dropped by 7 percent during the same time frame. The decline in downtown jobs also was the highest in the U.S.
Still, Phoenix ranked eighth among the 98 largest U.S. metros in terms its centralized job base, according to the Brookings report. In 2006, 25.8 percent of Phoenix’s jobs were within three miles of downtown. Virginia Beach, Va., topped that list with 36 percent of its jobs close to downtown, followed by New York where 35 percent of jobs are in Manhattan and other urban areas. Las Vegas was next on the list with 30 percent of its jobs close to downtown and on the Strip in 2006, the most recent year studied
Detroit and Chicago had the most decentralized job centers with 77 percent and 69 percent of their region’s jobs more than 10 miles from their downtowns. Only 8 percent of jobs in Los Angeles were in its downtown with 26 percent within 3 to 10 miles of downtown L.A. and 66 percent more than 10 miles away.
In Phoenix, the 2006 job picture saw 50 percent of local jobs 3 to 10 miles from downtown and 24 percent more than 10 miles away in the region’s growing suburbs. Study: Phoenix job centers sprawling but not as decentralized as LA, Chicago - Phoenix Business Journal:
Last edited by fcorrales80; 11-01-2009 at 10:57 PM..
If only it were as simply as paying more in taxes...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ponderosa
The US has a much higher infant death rate and trails in every other measure of health and physical well-being than Cuba. Our graduation rates and education achievement are significantly less as well. Sounds like Cuba is a better place to live. So is every other developed nation in the world based on statistical comparisons. The upper middle class here, though, has it pretty good - maybe better than just about anywhere. Same is true in AZ. There is an almost third-world-lite stratification here. AZ is a tough place to be broke, unemployed, illegal, mentally ill, uneducated or need help. We are not going to improve upon the aggregated stats unless we want to pay more taxes. So far, that is an idea that doesn't get much traction in Arizona
Paying more in taxes is no guarantee that the solutions will be effective. California, where I live, is high in taxes, and a recent study finds that public services aren't any better here than in low tax states. The money is either being wasted or going to public sector salaries and benefits.
Is that really you? I know you aren't the biggest fan of this state but you don't usually start threads like this.
Anyway, I think you need a change. Plain and Simple! No sarcasm intended. I could list a host of details but it won't change your mind and you just a need a change of scenery. I think you will value Arizona when you live somewhere else for a brief period. I think you should do it. You've been contemplating it for a while now. It will be healthy. We have our problems but I still feel the DAY TO DAY qualify of life here is amazing. It's the little things you take for granted or don't see as being positive that you will recognize as being positive when you live elsewhere like the roads and freeways for example. I admit that I get bored at times here but the conveniences outweigh the things we lack that could lead to boredom and I never regret living here versus LA for example. I also think a lot of Phoenicians are spoiled because we are a part of the west coast and we get compared to some of the best cities in the country like San Diego, San Francisco, LA, Las Vegas and Seattle. I wish people could live in Dallas for example or a city like St. Louis
Didn't anyone think that some people might see Phx. as a City for new hope and opportunity??????
Not everyone moves here because it's nice and sunny the majority of the time. I lived in LA where it's good weather most of the time but some of us were sick and tired of the high cost of living; and the high crime, pollution, and traffic problems. Then you have the Fires, Floods, Earthquakes, and the left-wing one-sided attitudes running things over there!!!!!! All of that enticed some of us ex-Californians to seek other refuges.
Yeah, I know Phx. has troubles with crime, traffic, home foreclosures, and not the best in Education. No place is perfect. For some of us though, it's better than where we came from!!!!!!!!!
I find it funny that people want to move to AZ for the "better" weather, sunshine, mountains and desert. Since when do those things pay the bills and offer a good quality of life. To me, the most important things to considering consider in a state are JOBS, education, taxes, business growth and cost of living. And when looking at those factors, Arizona doesnt stack up. Though mountains are nice to look at and sunshine is warm to your face, it doesnt pay the bills and give you a job and a quality of life. For these reasons, AZ is highly over-rated. Highly. You call 110-plus temps for five months at a time "good" weather? You are a prisoner in your own home between May and OCT, for crying out loud, and cant do much of anything. By that measure and in my opinion, Pheonix has the WORST weather in the country. And dont even get me started on the state's overwhelming lack of education and jobs (even in a good econ). AZ is just over-rated. Period. I wish people would learn that and do their research B4 wanting to come here.
I know some natives and Phoenix lovers hate seeing these statistics over and over...I too get annoyed but afterward come to a realization that they do need to be discussed even if they are annoying and consistent. Their have been too many threads like this to count, I've posted statistics to the contrary of negative statistics, or stats that clear up some of the misinformation but after a while a new thread pops up asking the same questions. So here is some information that I've learned over the years about our country, Arizona, and Phoenix:
To ignore illegal immigration/certain minority population (disenfranchisement) issues is ignorant on both left or right extremes. Using illegals/certain minorities as a "scapegoat" is wrong, but not labeling those groups as a major issue is also wrong. For instance, the Native American population in Arizona is the second largest in the nation in numbers and percentage after Oklahoma and the illegal immigrant/1st generation LEGAL immigrant population in Arizona is also a huge number. Both of those two groups have the highest teen pregnancy rates, dropout rates, child mortality rates, obesity rates, alcoholism rates, diabetic rates, and on and on... I know it isn't very PC for a "white" person to say this so I will.
Sometimes I wonder if more social programs and assistance for people in these situations would improve their standard of living; often, as statistics point out, social welfare does increase the living standards of the poor BUT it also "traps" them into the cycle of that system...
If you take the time to look at those statistics you should be able to extrapolate an interesting dichotomy that exists in this state regarding those different categories. With education, much of the "failures" in Arizona regarding schools deal with the groups mentioned above. When you take into account that urban school districts in Arizona rank higher than the national averages you should start to wonder about school rankings. Almost ALL major cities rank worse than metro Phoenix cities (including Phoenix), Flagstaff and Tucson (where most Arizonans live) in educational attainment, graduation rates, teen pregnancy rates, etc. Boston, NYC, Chicago, Detroit, Philadelphia, Newark, Houston, Minneapolis, Los Angeles, and on and on all have graduation rates below 40%...The urban cities in Arizona (each and every one) have a 60% graduation rate or better. Mesa has the highest rate of graduation in the nation for cities over 100,000 in population at 71%. All this information has been posted on city data threads, just do a search in the forum and you'll find all the post regarding these statistics.
Death by handguns:
If one looks into the statistics posted another interesting "tale of two citings" may be noticed...17% of murders in Arizona are committed using a weapon...what does this mean exactly? Well, more information is need to find out why there is a discrepancy with these pieces of information.
Best states to live:
Arizona is ranked 36th according to the stats posted. The "formula" for this ranking is based on "44 factors all given equal weight. One of those factors being median income...ok so obviously many states will be higher than Arizona since the cost of living is also substantially higher in those states ranked as "best states to live in." Compare average and median home prices/taxes/grocery bills/utility payments/etc over most of those states above Arizona and you'll understand this "ranking" better. For comparison, look at the "amount" ranking of Arizona and the top ranked state and note the difference...is it huge in your opinion considering the higher cost of living outside of Arizona?
Personal income:
Read above...note, so far in 2009 Phoenix leads the nation for highest wage increases...
Child death rates:
Similar to the issues related to education; read into which families are most burdened by this tragedy. This is one category we MUST all consider vital as Americans...no matter the child's background we must address this. That said, Arizona is in a unique position compared to most states because of these circumstances so we must also keep that in mind. Furthermore, one of the largest contributors of child mortality is actually an Arizona "luxury" staple and part of our leisurely lifestyle; the swimming pool (water in general)! Most of these accidents happen in solid neighborhoods and to good families.
The health index:
This one is the most skewed and discrepancy ridden categories. Cancer rates, obesity rates, HIV/AIDS rates, abortion rates, and on and on are low in Arizona. In those same statistics posted, the rates of diseases in Arizona are near the bottom of the groups yet the health index points in another direction. Furthermore, Arizona scores high for exercise rates...there are probably other factors considered in this category and I'd like to know what they are.
Yes, I do know all of what you say and this is one of the reasons I posted this, even knowing I would be crushed. lol
Even if there are reasons we get the bad rap for "education" lets use that one, and it's only because we have so many poor Indians and Mexicans that bring it down, it still effects all of us. We can turn a blind eye because locally we know the "real deal", but when your child turns in a college application with a 4.0 from Az, most Universities take our ranking into account and wonder if they will be able to keep up. Their 4.0 is really looked at as a 3.0 because it's from our state. A child with an identical application in the running for a spot with a child from a state known for a good educational system would get the spot if it came down to it.
Not to mention our poor teachers, with this rep in education it's the last place to draw good teachers. What good teacher would come to a state ranked "last" in education? They would be afraid to have it on their resume, be afraid they wouldn't get the funding or the support to be a good teacher because we look like we just don't care. We do have some great teachers here, but it's for other reasons, and they will never be able to over come the reputation or stats of our educational system, they will have to just "eat it", and know they do their personal best. But, having it on a resume if they move will be a different story.
Even though we know "why" we get these rankings, skewed by our extremely varied population, they still effect us all, so why don't we do something about it? Why are those kids dropping out of school? What is the problem? Why don't we work on this at all? It's not like it hasn't been a problem for years and years yet we still accept it.
I guess I just don't understand anymore, but I do appreciate your honest answers, and I do take all of that into account and logically know "why" we get them, I guess I am puzzled as to "why" we don't try to change it. Do we really not care at all about all those kids who are Indian or Mexican? Is it that we cant change it? Shouldn't we change it for them? Or at least for the kids who do well and have to put AZ on their college apps?
I guess I am just being a bit extravagant in my emotions on this topic, why do I care, right? But I do for some reason, we've had this talk before, lol, you know how emotional I get about it. Maybe it's all the teachers and professors in my family. lol
I'll try to calm down a bit and just accept it for what it is, I think when I saw these stats yet again for another year I was bummed. But, I am leaving so why do I care? I think I'm getting emotional about leaving too, I've done a lot in communities trying to help, it's an uphill battle. I just don't understand why it's so hard. lol Oh well, thanks, and I hope I didn't make you upset with me.
Yes, I do know all of what you say and this is one of the reasons I posted this, even knowing I would be crushed. lol
Even if there are reasons we get the bad rap for "education" lets use that one, and it's only because we have so many poor Indians and Mexicans that bring it down, it still effects all of us. We can turn a blind eye because locally we know the "real deal", but when your child turns in a college application with a 4.0 from Az, most Universities take our ranking into account and wonder if they will be able to keep up. Their 4.0 is really looked at as a 3.0 because it's from our state. A child with an identical application in the running for a spot with a child from a state known for a good educational system would get the spot if it came down to it.
Not to mention our poor teachers, with this rep in education it's the last place to draw good teachers. What good teacher would come to a state ranked "last" in education? They would be afraid to have it on their resume, be afraid they wouldn't get the funding or the support to be a good teacher because we look like we just don't care. We do have some great teachers here, but it's for other reasons, and they will never be able to over come the reputation or stats of our educational system, they will have to just "eat it", and know they do their personal best. But, having it on a resume if they move will be a different story.
Even though we know "why" we get these rankings, skewed by our extremely varied population, they still effect us all, so why don't we do something about it? Why are those kids dropping out of school? What is the problem? Why don't we work on this at all? It's not like it hasn't been a problem for years and years yet we still accept it.
I guess I just don't understand anymore, but I do appreciate your honest answers, and I do take all of that into account and logically know "why" we get them, I guess I am puzzled as to "why" we don't try to change it. Do we really not care at all about all those kids who are Indian or Mexican? Is it that we cant change it? Shouldn't we change it for them? Or at least for the kids who do well and have to put AZ on their college apps?
I guess I am just being a bit extravagant in my emotions on this topic, why do I care, right? But I do for some reason, we've had this talk before, lol, you know how emotional I get about it. Maybe it's all the teachers and professors in my family. lol
I'll try to calm down a bit and just accept it for what it is, I think when I saw these stats yet again for another year I was bummed. But, I am leaving so why do I care? I think I'm getting emotional about leaving too, I've done a lot in communities trying to help, it's an uphill battle. I just don't understand why it's so hard. lol Oh well, thanks, and I hope I didn't make you upset with me.
I am sick of living in Phoenix myself. For me it's too many people. And like you I have been casting about looking for a better place. You know what a major problem I have is? I can find few places outside of tony suburbs of other cities that have schools ranked as HIGH as the ones my kids attend in Goodyear. And I see no advantage moving from one city to another.
Our schools in Estrella are "excelling" under the state criteria. We get a 9 or10 from Greatschools for all of them, elementary and high school, and our test scores are significantly higher than national averages on the standardized questions. I have a hard time finding schools anywhere on Greatschools that can beat that. Estrella is nothing special. The same kind of school performance exists throughout most of Chandler, Gilbert, Scottsdale, Ahwatukee and other areas.
Is it tough being poor here. Absolutely. It is tough being a poor kid anywhere. You're pretty naive if you think that any other city offers better educational opportunities to the poorest of its citizens. Where some other states beat the pants off of us is in the rural areas. In AZ, rural schools are almost universally under-funded and under-performing. It is fascinating to drive through Wisconsin and see all the modern, glitzy schools in tiny towns. But on the other hand, Milwaukee has some of the worst schools imaginable. We do a fairly good job of education in our cities actually compared to most cities.
Is that really you? I know you aren't the biggest fan of this state but you don't usually start threads like this.
Anyway, I think you need a change. Plain and Simple! No sarcasm intended. I could list a host of details but it won't change your mind and you just a need a change of scenery. I think you will value Arizona when you live somewhere else for a brief period. I think you should do it. You've been contemplating it for a while now. It will be healthy. We have our problems but I still feel the DAY TO DAY qualify of life here is amazing. It's the little things you take for granted or don't see as being positive that you will recognize as being positive when you live elsewhere like the roads and freeways for example. I admit that I get bored at times here but the conveniences outweigh the things we lack that could lead to boredom and I never regret living here versus LA for example. I also think a lot of Phoenicians are spoiled because we are a part of the west coast and we get compared to some of the best cities in the country like San Diego, San Francisco, LA, Las Vegas and Seattle. I wish people could live in Dallas for example or a city like St. Louis
Yes, it's me and yes, ha ha, I do know better than to start threads like this, I get a lot of flack for it but I think you are right, I just need to get out and forget about it. See what its like someplace else so I can look back and appreciate more. I don't hate it here by any means it's just not a good fit anymore. I keep trying to fit my square body into the round hole. lol
You are right, we are a bit spoiled, it feels like we turn a blind eye to the other populations here, even if we don't. The reservations and illegals, or just the poor, like it doesn't effect us "middle class" folk. To me it does though, I have been active for years in health, education, etc.....I feel it just doesn't do any good. I am burnt out, you are right. I need a slap in the face, and I'll be fine. ha ha It's just between education and our rep on the news I start to wonder why we don't work harder to promote all the positives as a state. I think it's because I am moving now, and I feel defeated to a certain degree. But, alas, I don't need to take it out on a thread. Thats my mistake. lol Always have I been too emotional, I need a blog instead.
Think about this, what if AZ was consistently rated last in "ER care", or "patient recovery" like we are in education? I mean, you know it's just because say, all the illegals or Indians effect the stats or something to that nature, but, how would you feel as a doctor? Wouldn't you want to try and fix it? It would reflect on you if you applied at another hospital in another state, so wouldn't you want to fix it? Wouldn't you be bummed that you can't attract the best docs because why would they come to a state ranked last ? I think thats how it is for us in these fields because it sucks to be on the other end. I know a lot of good teachers who have flown the coup, because it's just embarrassing to say the least.
But, then again you are right, I just need to accept it and move on, I guess I'm just about to go and thought I should see one more time what everyone thinks about these things we get a bad rap for. I sure didn't mean to pick up a bunch of enemies before I left though, I do see more of what people get out of AZ, and am glad to hear it all. I hope I will be welcomed to check in from time to time, and I promise I won't be a negative outsider. lol
I will in fact, miss the "sun". lol
Every state offers something different, you all are right, it just depends what you want out of it. But just because AZ doesn't have what I want, doesn't mean I hate it, it may be lacking in certain areas for me but overall it has been home for 30 years. Instead of wondering why it doesn't change to fit my square body I will go, lol.
Didn't anyone think that some people might see Phx. as a City for new hope and opportunity??????
Not everyone moves here because it's nice and sunny the majority of the time. I lived in LA where it's good weather most of the time but some of us were sick and tired of the high cost of living; and the high crime, pollution, and traffic problems. Then you have the Fires, Floods, Earthquakes, and the left-wing one-sided attitudes running things over there!!!!!! All of that enticed some of us ex-Californians to seek other refuges.
Yeah, I know Phx. has troubles with crime, traffic, home foreclosures, and not the best in Education. No place is perfect. For some of us though, it's better than where we came from!!!!!!!!!
Great point! I often run into those running from earthquakes, and high rent from Cali, it is in fact a good deal for them. Thanks for pointing this out!
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Most of these accidents happen in solid neighborhoods and to good families.
Phoenix is next...
Why do I believe this? Well because the vacancy rate in downtown Phoenix is the lowest in the state and among the nation's largest cities with a 14.7% office vacancy rate even with the current new construction. Anything below 15% is seen as "healthy." During this same time, suburban office development has declined and suburban office vacancy rates in Scottsdale, far NE Phoenix, etc are well over 20%. This is very reminiscent of those cities mentioned above and a renewed interest in a healthy urban core.
If only it were as simply as paying more in taxes...
