Move to Outlaw teacher's strikes in PA (Pittsburgh: teaching jobs, purchase)

[kevin37]

[quote=h_curtis;19880402]There is some truth in this, but what if a union oversteps its bounds? What if teachers start making over $100K for working so few days of the year and getting every holiday off known to man?

"Your scare tactic of privatization won't fly with me." --Scare tactic..click the link. Read.

"If the unions get broken up, I feel they will get what they deserve, just like so many industries that wanted too much. Auto workers, steel industry and countless other industries." ---Misinformed and uninformed!

"Teachers can make $80K and that is fine, but not $100K." ---Crab mentality.

"Guess we will see how it shakes down." Yup....an example of poor critical thinking and passivity working together.

[kevin37]

@ Aqua Teen Girl.....They can't connect the dots and make meaning. This is why Americans are getting exactly what they deserve in quality of living, wages, education and health care. But let's wait and see how it all shakes down.....LOL.

[Aqua Teen Carl]

Originally Posted by kevin37

@ Aqua Teen Girl.....

It's Carl bro.

[Picksburg Stillers]

HOW TEACHERS' UNIONS AFFECT EDUCATION PRODUCTION

This study helps to explain why measured school inputs appear to have little effect on student outcomes, particularly for cohorts educated since 1960. Teachers' unionization can explain how public schools simultaneously can have more generous inputs and worse student performance. Using panel data on United States school districts, I identify the effect of teachers' unionization through differences in the timing of collective bargaining, especially timing determined by the passage of state laws that facilitate teachers' unionization. I find that teachers' unions increase school inputs but reduce productivity sufficiently to have a negative overall effect on student performance. Union effects are magnified where schools have market power.

[UKyank]

Can someone explain to me that whenever public sector employees are discussed be they teachers, bus drivers, etc. a bunch of people jump up & say that the market realities should be ignored for these positions for some reason. Right now (and for awhile now), unemployment is high & people are lining up to work for reduced wages so why should the public sector be exempt of taking advantage of getting equally competent workers at reduced wages?

I would love to be able to pay every public worker $1,000,000/yr but let's try to live in reality & pay people what there work is worth in the actual market of supply & demand

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by UKyank

Can someone explain to me that whenever public sector employees are discussed be they teachers, bus drivers, etc. a bunch of people jump up & say that the market realities should be ignored for these positions for some reason. Right now (and for awhile now), unemployment is high & people are lining up to work for reduced wages so why should the public sector be exempt of taking advantage of getting equally competent workers at reduced wages?

I'm all for looking at market realities. And one of the current market realities is that hourly compensation has actually been increasing in the private sector:



So insisting that public sector works should be taking pay cuts would actually be making them an exception to what the private sector is doing.

Generally, bargaining to a price on equal terms is what defines a market price. So the people who are insisting that teacher compensation should be lower than what such a bargaining process has produced are actually the ones who are seeking to defy market pricing.

[UKyank]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

I'm all for looking at market realities. And one of the current market realities is that hourly compensation has actually been increasing in the private sector:

So insisting that public sector works should be taking pay cuts would actually be making them an exception to what the private sector is doing.

Generally, bargaining to a price on equal terms is what defines a market price. So the people who are insisting that teacher compensation should be lower than what such a bargaining process has produced are actually the ones who are seeking to defy market pricing.

So you're saying that if starting salaries for teachers were cut, say, 15%, you wouldn't be able to fill the positions with qualified individuals with ease?

[gg]

Originally Posted by UKyank

So you're saying that if starting salaries for teachers were cut, say, 15%, you wouldn't be able to fill the positions with qualified individuals with ease?

There would still be a line a mile long for every job. Of course. What other job has that much time off every year? None that have that kind of pay that is for sure. I have no problem with a good wage to get the best and brightest, but there is a limit. The pensions and long term costs are going to be killing us. I want to retire in Pittsburgh, but school taxes might be what makes me have to move out of the region. It bums me out.

[UKyank]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

I'm all for looking at market realities. And one of the current market realities is that hourly compensation has actually been increasing in the private sector:

So insisting that public sector works should be taking pay cuts would actually be making them an exception to what the private sector is doing.

Generally, bargaining to a price on equal terms is what defines a market price. So the people who are insisting that teacher compensation should be lower than what such a bargaining process has produced are actually the ones who are seeking to defy market pricing.

Also, what does the fact the across the board hourly compensation has been increasing in the private sector have to do with anything? I hope you're not suggesting that every worker in every position has seen their pay increasing. Some postions see a pay raise because their services are in greater need and some positions see their pay either stagnate or even decrease (or the number of those hired decrease - and yes, many people continue to lose their jobs totally) because of an oversupply of such workers. Apparently, across the board those employed seeing pay increases have outweighed those recieving pay stagnation or cuts; how this correlates to one particular public sector job position also requiring a raise is beyond me.

I am suggesting that there is an oversupply of workers available for the position in question in this thread (teaching) and thus the market realities of oversupply is to push down the wages. Why do you think so many new graduates with teaching certifications from PA move to areas such as the Carolinas to teach? It is not that the pay is better (it is much worse), it is because there are not enough job openings in our area for them to fill, hence you could lower the pay scale and still have capable people to fill those positions.

When you are dealing with taxpayer funded positions the budget minders should have an obligation to pay out the absolute minimum in salaries and benefits that the market will allow (so that you sill have competant people to fill the positions), and I do not believe for a minute that that threshold is even close to being met hence the fighting over the few coveted positions that do open up.

Factor in the perks that many public positions in question here give (i.e less working hours; more time off, tenure, much more flexibility in regards to things like sick days, paid for continuing education, pensions, etc) and you are really comparing apples to oranges when you say 'on average private sector hourly compensation has been increasing, so therefore all public sector wages need to go up too' .

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by UKyank

So you're saying that if starting salaries for teachers were cut, say, 15%, you wouldn't be able to fill the positions with qualified individuals with ease?

I have no idea. I've never tried to hire for teacher positions.

Generally, what I am saying is that it is rather ironic that on the one hand people tout "market realities", and then on the other hand these same people imply that we should determine appropriate wages for teachers by asking random people on the Internet what they think teachers should be paid. That's not how you determine market prices.