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I'll take a stab, although I really don't want to get dragged into this dispute per se.
I think Pittsburgh is more parochial than other cities in which I've lived. A lack of recent immigration into the area would seem to largely contribute to that.
Pittsburgh's lack of immigration has to do with its poor economy of the past....Pittsburgh history however is made up of immigration.....and Pittsburgh seems to be making a slow come back with the increase in Asian immigration.
Both Boston and Minneapolis are less diverse cities than Pittsburgh so again its nothing exclusive to a region.
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The fact that we are a "city of neighborhoods" may even play into that underlying sense of place. That to me differentiates it from the Eastern cities or even the Midwestern ones (to a lesser extent) and it shares with much of the surrounding region, urban/rural exceptions apply of course.
Now this is something near exclusive to Pittsburgh, but the key is exclusive here, you wont find this is any other of the cities within the "Appalachian" region either....So I wouldn't say its defining of an "Appalachian" culture.
Keep in mind Appalachian Region is not just WPA.
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Certainly the geography of the region plays a role in shaping the culture of the City, doesn't it? Again, I go back to the city of neighborhoods concept. The role that coal and the rivers played in shaping the City is undeniable. The Steel industry doesn't exist without easy access to both and it's legacy, while diminished, is still here.
True but the only thing that this would lend to a "Appalachian Culture" is the topography of Pittsburgh that is similar to other cities within the Appalachian region again this has more to do with proximity to the Mountains themselves than it does to any defining culture.
Every city has history that defines it, again I go back to my Philadelphia and Quaker notion that Philadelphia should be a strong "Quaker" Culture.
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I find truth in the notion that Pittsburgh is Appalachian and therefore helps to define the culture that you're suggesting it isn't a part of.
But everything you outlined is exclusive to Pittsburgh's history not an Appalachian region specifically....
Again there has to be something more defining to say "Appalachian" culture....something that says this can only be found in this Region and nowhere else...
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Paris may be more similar to London than a small town outside of Toulouse, but they're still both French and no one would suggest that Paris doesn't help shape French culture.
Paris/French culture is Easily defined....Seems we're having a hard time with such "Appalachian" Culture.
you do realize most people have disagreed with you in this thread?
Disagreeing with me doesn't make it right, and actually more people see my point than disagree with me, if you count the posts...you're continuous rambling on to ignore answering the question counts as 1 .........
Still not going to answer the question I see....we're now at 6 pages, wanna try to make it 7
Let me start by saying I'm from Pittsburgh born and bread and still identify closely with my hometown...I live in NYC, have lived in Philadelphia, and have lived in DC for a short period
Coming from a native Pittsburgh and probably speaking for all common man Pittsburghers that don't study regionality like CD regulars...
WHAT THE HELL IS AN APPALACHIAN CULTURE, and how does it apply to Pittsburgh specifically and definitively head-on and not beat around some bush...Then I will shut up....But your continuation of "Pittsburgh is an Appalachian culture" without even know what the hell an Appalachian culture is yourself is laughable.
- Being slower paced than the Bigger Coast cities does not make culture, that has more to do with Pittsburgh having a much smaller population.
- Yinzer Speak again doesn't make for a distinct regional Culture
What is this "Culture"???
I still retain the notion that such "Appalachian" region that Pittsburgh is suppose to be apart of is more-so made-up simply by the "Coasters" trying to restrict the term "Northeast" to the Bos-Wash corridor and exclude Pittsburgh because its not Coastal. BS!
No One outside of City Data.com even uses the term Appalachia to describe a region let a lone try to lump Pittsburgh into it.....Pittsburghers themselves (from the brightest to the dumbest) don't even know f*ck an Appalachia culture is, you don't even hear the term used no one is going to tell you Pittsburgh is "Appalachian" over Northeast, "East Coast", Midwest..... and they're going to look at you like you have 3 heads when you try Pittsburgh is Appalachian.
again I lived in Pittsburgh, NYC, DC and Philadelphia...and there are differences between all 4 of the cities, but the underlying foundation of them are more a less the same
So is there really an Appalachian Culture that Pittsburgh is apart of?????
1. "Yinzer Speak" does make for a distinct regional culture. Variations in vernacular is one way to define a culture. That is, language helps to define culture. An accent is one way to recognize that someone is from a different culture.
2. " ... again I lived in Pittsburgh, NYC, DC and Philadelphia...and there are differences between all 4 of the cities, but the underlying foundation of them are more a less the same." Nice assertion. Care to back that up? Define the cultural similarities. Take your own challenge, if you dare.
3. Physical barriers often define cultural boundaries. The mountains between Philadelphia and Pittsburgh still matter. That certainly true historically. Did those historical influences magically disappear? Then explain Yinzer Speak. Explain cookie table.
4. People from Cleveland refer to people from Pittsburgh as hiljacks, hillbillies, and inbreds. Do you think the same applies to New York City or those other East Coast cities you know well? If so, give examples.
5. Is Morgantown, WV part of Appalachia? As someone who didn't grow up in Pittsburgh, there is no difference between Pittsburgh and West Virginia. But as someone who grew up in Upstate New York, Pittsburgh culture is distinct from Northeastern culture.
6. If you don't know what Appalachian culture is, then how do you know Pittsburgh isn't Applachian?
Location: Pittsburgh (via Chicago, via Pittsburgh)
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Originally Posted by Blackbeauty212
Disagreeing with me doesn't make it right, and actually more people see my point than disagree with me, if you count the posts...you're continuous rambling on to ignore answering the question counts as 1 .........
Still not going to answer the question I see....we're now at 6 pages, wanna try to make it 7
You made an entire thread based on your continuous denial and ramblings while I and others have attempted to give you information that you just ignore. I can't even count the amount of quality posts you have ignored thus far
It's not about being offend its about understanding...the "Chip" comes from people throwing it around to classify Pittsburgh but not being able to define it or explain it.
Again if the culture was so define, how come no Pittsburgher outside of City Data even relates to this culture or even knows anything about an "Appalachian" culture...You'd think it would be more pronounced amongst the population of Pittsburgh.
...and your description still doesn't define Pittsburgh as an "Appalachian" culture....Mostly Northeast with a bit Midwest?????? that's far to generalized and doesn't make a unique culture.
Other cities are just as laid back non pretentious and friendly...This is not something exclusive to Pittsburgh and you do find that a lot in Midwest cities, which is probably the one attribute that Pittsburgh shares with the Midwest....
I wasn't "defining" Pittsburgh as Appalachian. I was simply saying it contains a touch of this cultural element--certainly tertiary to its Northeastern/Midwestern attributes.
And Katiana, I detect a slight sense of indignation in your post, even though I don't see how my attitude toward Pittsburgh could be seen as anything but overwhelmingly positive. What I find refreshing is this incredibly cohesive sense of community, the fact that people are, by and large, very friendly, parochial-minded and down to Earth.
1. "Yinzer Speak" does make for a distinct regional culture. Variations in vernacular is one way to define a culture. That is, language helps to define culture. An accent is one way to recognize that someone is from a different culture.
Can you find Yinzer speak outside of Pittsburgh but still in the "Appalachian" Region...NO!....Other cities have specific dialect in the speech of their native as well....
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2. " ... again I lived in Pittsburgh, NYC, DC and Philadelphia...and there are differences between all 4 of the cities, but the underlying foundation of them are more a less the same." Nice assertion. Care to back that up? Define the cultural similarities. Take your own challenge, if you dare.
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Complainers amongst the Population
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3. Physical barriers often define cultural boundaries. The mountains between Philadelphia and Pittsburgh still matter. That certainly true historically. Did those historical influences magically disappear? Then explain Yinzer Speak. Explain cookie table.
Gee seeing as Pittsburgh overwhelming in and out migration come from NYC, Philadelphia and DC before any city of the Midwest which isn't cut off by Mountains...I would guess it doesn't.
Yinzers are Exclusive, Dying Breed in the Pittsburgh of 2012...Appalachian Region is much bigger than WPA.
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4. People from Cleveland refer to people from Pittsburgh as hiljacks, hillbillies, and inbreds. Do you think the same applies to New York City or those other East Coast cities you know well? If so, give examples.
Since when does Cleveland matter in the opinion of Pittsburgh...btw....1 opinion of Pittsburgh from a Clevelander that could be applied to many East Coast Cities.
5. Is Morgantown, WV part of Appalachia? As someone who didn't grow up in Pittsburgh, there is no difference between Pittsburgh and West Virginia. But as someone who grew up in Upstate New York, Pittsburgh culture is distinct from Northeatern culture.
You do understand that the Appalachian Region goes all the way Upstate NY to Mississippi and Alabama, right?
There are plenty of differences between Pittsburgh and WVA too bad you can't notice. that still does not make for "Appalachian" Culture that supposedly defines Pittsburgh.
As someone that grew up in upstate NY, you should know first hand that Pittsburgh and Upstate NY have vast Differences Culturally.....Yet their all apart of the same region.
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6. If you don't know what Appalachian culture is, then how do you know Pittsburgh isn't Applachian?
Who's to say there's even such a culture that's defining to Pittsburgh...No one on this board has been able to....again the Appalachian Region is far to Generalized in Area to have a defining Culture...
Both Boston and Minneapolis are less diverse cities than Pittsburgh so again its nothing exclusive to a region.
Minneapolis
White alone - 244,525 (63.4%)
Black alone - 61,810 (16.0%)
Hispanic - 41,705 (10.8%)
Asian alone - 21,476 (5.6%)
Two or more races - 9,885 (2.6%)
American alone - 5,559 (1.4%)
Other race alone - 423 (0.1%)
St. Paul (Minneapolis' twin city)
White alone - 168,041 (59.7%)
Black alone - 40,084 (14.3%)
Asian alone - 37,770 (13.4%)
Hispanic - 26,775 (9.5%)
Two or more races - 5,203 (1.8%)
American alone - 2,783 (1.0%)
Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander alone - 344 (0.1%)
Other race alone - 244 (0.09%)
Boston
White alone - 330,367 (51.2%)
Black alone - 139,841 (21.7%)
Hispanic - 104,866 (16.3%)
Asian alone - 48,227 (7.5%)
Two or more races - 11,249 (1.7%)
Other race alone - 9,402 (1.5%)
American alone - 1,071 (0.2%)
Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander alone - 163 (0.03%)
Pittsburgh:
White alone - 202,422 (65.0%)
Black alone - 81,732 (26.2%)
Asian alone - 11,621 (3.7%)
Hispanic - 7,886 (2.5%)
Two or more races - 5,827 (1.9%)
Other race alone - 1,544 (0.5%)
American alone - 495 (0.2%)
Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander alone - 113 (0.04%)
I wasn't "defining" Pittsburgh as Appalachian. I was simply saying it contains a touch of this cultural element--certainly tertiary to its Northeastern/Midwestern attributes.
And Katiana, I detect a slight sense of indignation in your post, even though I don't see how my attitude toward Pittsburgh could be seen as anything but overwhelmingly positive. What I find refreshing is this incredibly cohesive sense of community, the fact that people are, by and large, very friendly, parochial-minded and down to Earth.
It sounded a bit condescending, and even moreso when you explained it.
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