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Old 11-08-2012, 12:50 PM
 
20,273 posts, read 33,018,179 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greg42 View Post
Ha! I object to that one.
Note by "our", I meant specifically Copanut and me, and other people specifically like us.

 
Old 11-08-2012, 01:04 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh area
9,912 posts, read 24,657,658 times
Reputation: 5164
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianTH View Post
Note by "our", I meant specifically Copanut and me, and other people specifically like us.
Oh so you don't think I'm like you?

Dunno, I figured you're a couple of middle class white guys, could be wrong, but I thought I had that figured out by now. And while most of your statement was true, I disagree that it is true of the "civil rights" part. Not when we have all the various things the DHS and such get up to.

Note that this is not the same as the fact that you may be comfortable with what is happening. That may be, even as your rights have eroded somewhat.
 
Old 11-08-2012, 01:10 PM
 
2,538 posts, read 4,711,827 times
Reputation: 3357
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moby Hick View Post
You had me right up to the "and".
Why not? Sure, Ross was slightly crazy, but we would probably still have a semblance of a manufacturing base left. We likely would not have had a Ruby Ridge, Waco, or Oklahoma City. Likely no invasion of Iraq or even a 9/11.
 
Old 11-08-2012, 01:13 PM
 
43,011 posts, read 108,061,041 times
Reputation: 30721
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianTH View Post
Note by "our", I meant specifically Copanut and me, and other people specifically like us.
I partially agree. What's not taken into consideration are the issues that we don't think are our issues. Healthcare reform is a good example. It's absolutely true that people do not receive treatment without health insurance, even in Pittsburgh. Someone can have health insurance their entire life, get laid off and not be able to afford COBRA. (Most people can't afford COBRA.) Everyone makes the mistake of assuming another program will cover it, but many people don't quality for medical assistance or hospital funding due to income and assets that aren't even very high. Can you imagine what it's like knowing that you have cancer or might have cancer and that you will likely die without tests or treatment? Sure, you can buy insurance, but it won't cover anything that's preexisting if there was a lapse in coverage. We think it's not our issue, but the reality is that only a very small percentage of society can afford cancer treatment out of pocket. A perfect storm can make it our issue overnight. Sadly, most people don't think of what's best for society when they vote. They only think of themselves, and often in a very short sighted way.
 
Old 11-08-2012, 01:16 PM
 
20,273 posts, read 33,018,179 times
Reputation: 2911
Quote:
Originally Posted by greg42 View Post
Not when we have all the various things the DHS and such get up to.
What do you think they are doing to Copanut and me?

Quote:
Note that this is not the same as the fact that you may be comfortable with what is happening. That may be, even as your rights have eroded somewhat.
I was more making the opposite point: I am not at all comfortable with the various ways in which civil rights have been eroded recently, even though I recognize that I have not been personally affected in any significant ways.
 
Old 11-08-2012, 01:18 PM
 
20,273 posts, read 33,018,179 times
Reputation: 2911
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopes View Post
What's not taken into consideration are the issues that we don't think are our issues. Healthcare reform is a good example.
I've actually been thinking about that since I posted. My wife and I can both get insurance for our spouse through work, and the odds of us both getting fired at the same time are very low, but still, there is some small risk of that. I don't know what Copanut's situation is.
 
Old 11-08-2012, 01:19 PM
 
1,714 posts, read 2,359,201 times
Reputation: 1261
Quote:
Originally Posted by Velvet Jones View Post
Why not? Sure, Ross was slightly crazy, but we would probably still have a semblance of a manufacturing base left. We likely would not have had a Ruby Ridge, Waco, or Oklahoma City. Likely no invasion of Iraq or even a 9/11.

Before or after the Republican Party leaders kidnapped his family?

 
Old 11-08-2012, 01:31 PM
 
2,538 posts, read 4,711,827 times
Reputation: 3357
Quote:
Originally Posted by SammyKhalifa View Post
Before or after the Republican Party leaders kidnapped his family?

That's probably true. Look at what happened to Jimmy Carter. If you look at the Carter before he became president and what he was during his presidency it shows that the position is more of a figure head than anything. The same can almost be said of Reagan. If Ron Paul had been elected I'm not sure he would have accomplished much either. The power base around DC is too strong. Any independent thought is quickly extinguish or otherwise negated.

Last edited by Velvet Jones; 11-08-2012 at 01:42 PM..
 
Old 11-08-2012, 01:40 PM
 
20,273 posts, read 33,018,179 times
Reputation: 2911
Quote:
Originally Posted by Velvet Jones View Post
The power base around DC is too strong. Any independent though is quickly extinguish or otherwise negated.
Note there are in fact two different entrenched groups, which swap between the government and the private sector depending on which party controls the relevant branch of government at a given time.

Of course that is still a pretty grim picture for those who really believe in the Mr. Smith Goes to Washington ideal. Nonetheless, it helps explain why even a cynic can acknowledge that elections have consequences.
 
Old 11-08-2012, 01:50 PM
 
43,011 posts, read 108,061,041 times
Reputation: 30721
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianTH View Post
I've actually been thinking about that since I posted. My wife and I can both get insurance for our spouse through work, and the odds of us both getting fired at the same time are very low, but still, there is some small risk of that. I don't know what Copanut's situation is.
A better example with be senior citizen issues. We will all be old someday.
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