Tom Murphy opposes Buncher project (Pittsburgh, Forest Hills: credit rating, loan, tax)

[MathmanMathman]

Originally Posted by wpipkins2

Murphy was one of Pittsburgh's great mayors. He ushered in the latest renaisance with the stadia, convention center, riverfront parks and trails, PNC First Side and the BNY Mellon Client Service Center. He also reconstructed Penn, Liberty, and Fifth Aveunes and added the street trees. Mayor Murphy started the redevelopment of East Liberty with The Home Depot and Whole Foods.

Murphy was also pushing Fifth and Forbes which would have razed a number of blocks and probably would have stuck Pittsburgh with a white elephant. And the stadia and convention center happened because the state was flush with cash.

[doo dah]

Originally Posted by MathmanMathman

Murphy was also pushing Fifth and Forbes which would have razed a number of blocks and probably would have stuck Pittsburgh with a white elephant. And the stadia and convention center happened because the state was flush with cash.

Like the former Lazarus store.

[MathmanMathman]

Originally Posted by doo dah

Like the former Lazarus store.

And Lord & Taylor was a disaster because it not only failed but ruined the former Mellon Bank building. PNC is trying to restore it. Must say that PNC has been a good corporate citizen.

[pman]

Originally Posted by h_curtis

Correct. He got things going here and was a great salesperson with Pittsburgh being the product he was selling. Not sure why people forget what was done in Pittsburgh during his years as mayor? He started a lot of things in this city and look where it went.

perhaps because his supporters seem to like to glaze over his very costly failures and how excessive debt remains a drag on the city to this day. the convention center isn't driving the downtown renaissance and really, neither is the stadia though they are a vast improvement over what was there. the land deals with the stadium authority are atrocious and have produced a lot of garbage...same with waterfront sq. it's not coincidental that the current "renaissance" coincides with the city falling into state fiscal mgmt in 2004. just look at how effective the rather small investment in market sq was versus the massive failure that was murphy's retail "investments." I don't see why people think a return to lavish spending on unfortunate projects and backroom deals that put huge chunks of land into incompetent hands is a good thing.

Originally Posted by MathmanMathman

And Lord & Taylor was a disaster because it not only failed but ruined the former Mellon Bank building. PNC is trying to restore it. Must say that PNC has been a good corporate citizen.

plus the debt associated with it. murphy is a lot like former governor rendell when he was mayor of philadelphia. he had vision, he was able to wheel and deal (fast eddie) but he had a penchant for large public projects as a means of rejuvenating the city, more often than not they failed to do so and left the city with debt. perhaps the entire concept of mayor is flawed as people often don't contain all the necessary elements to be a great mayor.

[pman]

Originally Posted by UKyank

It appears they bought it from Penn Central RR:
The Pittsburgh Press - Google News Archive Search

& PennDot owning a portion too:

The Pittsburgh Press - Google News Archive Search

And the URA
Pittsburgh Post-Gazette - Google News Archive Search

thanks. so buncher (likely his dad no?) bought 13th to 21st st in 1978 when stabile was operating parking on the land at the time. then in 1987 they attempted to acquire more land from penndot when they were attempting to build a 350 room marriott, a marina, 10 screen theater, and park with $29 million in public money (about $60 million today). PennDOT itself had acquired the property to build the crosstown expressway with federal funding. It appears that buncher was attempting a land swap at below fair market value.the question is how can buncher sit on this land doing nothing with it for 35 years. are assessments too low on the land?

as an aside, the crosstown bridge was estimated to cost $225 million in today's terms (part of a $837 million I279 project). not clear if those estimates include land acquition costs or just construction costs
The Pittsburgh Press - Google News Archive Search

1972 state ok's $132 million (inflation adjusted) purchase of convention center site from Penn Central. apparently an alternative site was Mon Plaza next to the smithfield st bridge
http://news.google.com/newspapers?ni...g=7268,2550924

[UKyank]

Originally Posted by pman

. It appears that buncher was attempting a land swap at below fair market value.the question is how can buncher sit on this land doing nothing with it for 35 years. are assessments too low on the land?

According to the county assessment site, taxes on the Buncher land are/were:
2011: $12,687
2012: $23,669
2013: $32,735
2014: $32,735

[pman]

Originally Posted by UKyank

According to the county assessment site, taxes on the Buncher land are/were:
2011: $12,687
2012: $23,669
2013: $32,735
2014: $32,735

interesting. that's quite a change in two years though and certainly indicates that, at the very least, it was too low. does it give the acreage?

[UKyank]

Originally Posted by pman

interesting. that's quite a change in two years though and certainly indicates that, at the very least, it was too low. does it give the acreage?

16.212 acres. Assessed at $7,062,000. Must have shot up in the last reassessment.
For reference it's Parcel ID 0009-D-00300-0000-00

[pman]

Originally Posted by UKyank

16.212 acres. Assessed at $7,062,000. Must have shot up in the last reassessment.
For reference it's Parcel ID 0009-D-00300-0000-00

comes out to about .46%. it's not an uncommon problem to levy too low an assessment on land and too high on buildings which encourages the operation of surface lots.
Taxes for Property Assessed at $100,000 in City of Pittsburgh 2013 $2,194
Allegheny County Community Profile
if you adjust that figure for the assessed value in 2013 which you posted it would be about $155k for the year. I'm not a tax expert but it seems to be undertaxed.

[wpipkins2]

Originally Posted by doo dah

Like the former Lazarus store.

The former Lazarus and Lord and Taylor blocks are still relevant. Both blocks have all new infrastructure and are occupied. If not for the failed department stores, those block would have further decayed. Those blocks would be more expensive to redevelop today.