I am tired of hearing how great Pittsburgh is! (Indiana: best city, income)

[Tiger Beer]

Originally Posted by juliegt

Another deciding factor was that local artist, Laura McLaughlin was such a huge booster of the place. I wanted a city with a good environment for artists. She is from Pittsburgh originally and wouldn't live anywhere else.

Can you tell us about Laura McLaughlin? I just looked online, and definitely seems a bit obscure. But interesting to know about her nontheless.

[Goodjules]

Originally Posted by Tiger Beer

Can you tell us about Laura McLaughlin? I just looked online, and definitely seems a bit obscure. But interesting to know about her nontheless.

She goes by Laura Jean McLaughlin professionally. Her website isn't up to date, but it will give you an idea of her work. She did the mosaics on Whole Foods and at Gallerie Chiz.

Here's a link to one of the galleries that features her work: Sherrie Gallerie: Laura Jean Mclaughlin

Thanks for asking. she's very good. Does Pittsburgh proud.

Edit: Actually it looks like her website has been recently updated.

[gortonator]

Katiana, yep, perhaps one too many inferences in my post, I wasn't explicit enough. I know all about the delights of places like Portland, Denver etc, but my post was aimed at the OPs original assertion, ie that Pittsburgh was not much different to several mid-western-ish, mid-sized, low-cost cities, like the ones he listed. San Diego, for example, is hardly one of those.

That's enough pedantry

[ThumbingMyWay]

Originally Posted by ThumbingMyWay

But realistically, does Pittsburgh really offer that much more than Indy, Louisville, Raleigh, Charlotte, Nashville, Cincinatti, or most of the other places listed above, at approximately the same cost?

I fail to see how Pittsburgh is that much better than most other cities of similar size and cost.

Hopefully this isn't against the rules but I am going to quote myself.

I didnt mean to limit the comparison to just smaller 'Midwestern' cities. I think Denver is certainly fair to use as it is basically the same size and the cost of living is in the same ballpark.

I was more trying to exclude the west coast cities from the comparison bc everyone's post so far about the west coast has been that it's too expensive.

[ThumbingMyWay]

Originally Posted by Katiana

By MSA size, Pittsburgh is #22. Denver is #21. The five cities just above Pittsburgh are Denver, Baltimore, St. Louis, Tampa, San Diego and Minneapolis. The next five smaller are Charlotte, Portland, San Antonio, Orlando, and Sacramento. Those are Pittsburgh's peers. Also note my post was not entirely about academics, though several of those cities also have world-class universities.

Except for San Diego and Portland, I don't see why these cities aren't also comparable to Pittsburgh in cost of living. Obviously they are all different, but to me seem in the same ballpark as well.

[djbf]

We're moving to Pittsburgh in a couple of weeks. Combined, we've lived in Daytona Beach, New Orleans, Seattle, San Francisco, Oakland, Chicago, Boston, London, and Austin.

Daytona... not worth writing about.

Denver is a cultural void, but is cheap. The housing stock there is very underwhelming. Boulder is a yuppy suburb and very expensive, but has lots of tech jobs and is pretty.

New Orleans is super trendy right now, but people moving here from the outside have no idea what they're getting in to and most folks leave within a couple of years. The only part of the city cared for is the French Quarter and you won't want to go there as a resident because you'll come to realize it's a tourist trap. The jazz scene here is great, but no rock or indie bands tours here. None. The job market (tech jobs, in particular) is ridiculously overstated. Oh, and the city is full of newcomers who hate that other people are moving here and "changing the city." It's absurd. If you're a doctor or a lawyer, though, you've got it made. The cost of living has increased so much that I consider it overpriced. Beaches are an hour away, but the only real "nature" involves canoeing through a swamp, which is lovely, but requires more planning and insect repellant. The only recreational activity within the city is getting drunk.

SF was a lot of fun, but you have to work like a dog and will inevitably live paycheck to paycheck regardless of how much you're paid. Great amenities, culture galore, amazing food, and enough day trips to last you for years. There are beaches, but you won't want to get it in the water. The cost of living for the privilege of stepping over human feces on the sidewalk on a daily basis and the complete impossibility of owning a home is what drove me away, but it was great in my 20s as a workaholic geek. Oakland doesn't have the caché of saying you live in SF, but at least you can find a bungalow in a mediocre neighborhood for $600k. Way better weather over there, though. And tons of hiking/bicycling in the hills.

Chicago will not be a weather improvement for you. At all. I love it up there, though, but the 6 month winter is just too much. Better to visit, methinks.

Austin... another overrated place, IMO. I moved there based on all the magazine articles after SF. It's got a complete lack of culture, but if a local music scene is #1 on your list, it's the place to be. There are jobs. The salaries aren't particularly amazing and the housing costs have increased exponentially in the last 5 years. The surrounding towns are a good source of things to do, but they aren't numerous enough to sustain the soulless character of Austin proper. In spite of the motto, there is very little weird about Austin. Maybe weird for Texas, but not weird for any other city. To me, it was like living in a large suburb. The people, however, are among the nicest I've ever encountered and it's very easy to make friends there. And the swimming holes are fun.

No place is right for everyone and you always have to make compromises, but I have no regrets about moving around so much in past years looking for the right fit. Go for it! Move around! Explore! For us, Pittsburgh seems to have the right amounts of everything we've learned that we value, so hopefully it's going to be the last stop. Moving is far less exciting in my late 30s...

[Goodjules]

Originally Posted by djbf

No place is right for everyone and you always have to make compromises, but I have no regrets about moving around so much in past years looking for the right fit. Go for it! Move around! Explore! For us, Pittsburgh seems to have the right amounts of everything we've learned that we value, so hopefully it's going to be the last stop. Moving is far less exciting in my late 30s...

That about sums up my reasons for moving to Pittsburgh from SF, although I haven't moved around anywhere near as much as you have. I did visit quite a few cities before choosing Pittsburgh.

[ThumbingMyWay]

Originally Posted by gortonator

It is a good point. I'm sure such places have their strengths, like country music and Nashville. Although you've obviously never been to Indy if you like hills.

Pittsburgh differentiators from these places my perspective? One of the best Universities in the world, 2 other fine ones, the Carnegie and Mellon legacies in arts/museums, a very elegant East End, some delightful green hilly scenery and a pretty spectacular downtown setting, a tolerant population (ie not crazy southern religious stuff), and 'harmless' weather (tornadoes and hurricanes don't rock my boat). 2 of the best sports teams in their genre. And the Pirates

I'm sure there are others I'm unaware of. But all these things contribute to a mix which I hypothesize many other mid-size cities might struggle to match. And I'm sure other places have their differentiators too. And I sure ain't visited them all (and don't intend to).

This is exactly the type of statement that I have a problem with (and one of the main reasons for my post).

I don't mean to turn this into strictly a Nashville vs Pittsburgh post, but since it is a city I am pretty familiar with, I will say it has everything you like about Pittsburgh (and even does many things better in my opinion). For example: they have a top university with Vanderbilt, a very large arts/museums presence, elegant areas (around the west end, Franklin, and others), green scenery north of the city and beautiful countryside surrounding, a more spectacular downtown, and there's not any 'crazy southern religion' or harmful weather (tornados seem to miss the area). And they have 2 pro sports teams to match (sorry but the pirates haven't fielded a pro team in 20 years . Also the music culture down there (not just country) gives it an identity (bc a city with an identity seems important to many). < maybe you should visit sometime.

As Katiana mentioned, Denver also matches/outdoes Pittsburgh in many of the things you listed. And I've said this before, it would be surprising to me if cities like Minneapolis, Charlotte, San Antonio, Raleigh-Durham, KC, Cincinnati, or ______ (pick your own comparison) "struggled to match" the combo of universities, arts, happening neighborhoods, delightful scenery, sports, or a tolerant population.

Obviously some cities do certain things better than others. But as a total package, lets stop pretending Pittsburgh has this magical combination of qualities that you can't find anywhere else except in San Francisco.

[Goodjules]

Originally Posted by ThumbingMyWay

This is exactly the type of statement that I have a problem with (and one of the main reasons for my post).

I don't mean to turn this into strictly a Nashville vs Pittsburgh post, but since it is a city I am pretty familiar with, I will say it has everything you like about Pittsburgh (and even does many things better in my opinion). For example: they have a top university with Vanderbilt, a very large arts/museums presence, elegant areas (around the west end, Franklin, and others), green scenery north of the city and beautiful countryside surrounding, a more spectacular downtown, and there's not any 'crazy southern religion' or harmful weather (tornados seem to miss the area). And they have 2 pro sports teams to match (sorry but the pirates haven't fielded a pro team in 20 years . Also the music culture down there (not just country) gives it an identity (bc a city with an identity seems important to many). < maybe you should visit sometime.

As Katiana mentioned, Denver also matches/outdoes Pittsburgh in many of the things you listed. And I've said this before, it would be surprising to me if cities like Minneapolis, Charlotte, San Antonio, Raleigh-Durham, KC, Cincinnati, or ______ (pick your own comparison) "struggled to match" the combo of universities, arts, happening neighborhoods, delightful scenery, sports, or a tolerant population.

Obviously some cities do certain things better than others. But as a total package, lets stop pretending Pittsburgh has this magical combination of qualities that you can't find anywhere else except in San Francisco.

I thought about moving to Nashville, but after spending a week there in June I decided against it. TOO DARN HOT! I wouldn't survive the summer. It is more conservative than Pittsburgh, but I was staying with a VERY conservative friend so that may have colored my opinion. I didn't dislike Nashville, but it didn't feel like the right fit for me.

[ThumbingMyWay]

Originally Posted by juliegt

I thought about moving to Nashville, but after spending a week there in June I decided against it. TOO DARN HOT! I wouldn't survive the summer. It is more conservative than Pittsburgh, but I was staying with a VERY conservative friend so that may have colored my opinion. I didn't dislike Nashville, but it didn't feel like the right fir for me.

Haha sorry if it sounded like it but that SF comment wasn't meant to be geared you, it was just a city repeatedly brought up here.

Nashville definitely can get hot, but same could be said for the Pittsburgh weather getting too cold.

The point is there are other cities out there where you can afford a house and have access to things to do. If someone just prefers Pittsburgh over _______ that's fine. My problem is people talk like Pittsburgh is on a different level than many of its peers.