I am tired of hearing how great Pittsburgh is! (Portland: mortgage, student loans)

[Goodjules]

Originally Posted by track2514

This is interesting to learn that Charlotte is also becoming more liberal. From my visits to Raleigh, it almost seems more liberal than some northern cities. It amazes me how fast areas like Raleigh and Austin are changing and I know it will eventually have to influence the cost of living in these areas.

It already has in Austin. Home prices there are going up, up, up.

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by goodgirl49

In Aliquippa in the 60's, I would say my high school was about 25% African-American.

Beaver Falls HS in the 60s here; about 15% African-American.

[Tiger Beer]

Originally Posted by ex-burgher

Charlotte has become somewhat more liberal due to transplants, but it's also because a much larger percentage of residents are either African American or Hispanic than in Pittsburgh;

Actually, that's a good thing to address. Voting Democratic doesn't make anyone liberal. Most African-American and Hispanic are actually very conservative on social issues.

Take 'Detroit' for example, sure it overwhelmingly votes 'Democratic', but they actually very very conservative when it comes to concepts such as public transportation, and on and on. It's not a liberal city at all. Liberal cities would be cities like Seattle or Portland or San Francisco.

When I look at most 'southern' cities, sure they might vote Democratic in their cities, as pretty much EVERY urban area across the entire country votes blue, as far as I know. Maybe only one or two rare exceptions. But, the caucasian populations just outside of most southern cities are generally well-known to be very Rush Limbaugh like in many ways with their ideas. You'll see little blue dots absolutely surrounded by red as far as the eye can see. Those red values usually begin right in the suburbs.

In other words, I'm sure Charlotte or Nashville has a nice little downtown of 'liberal-mindedness', but you won't have to go too far out of that, and those are going to be 'Obama is the Devil' bumperstickers type of stuff. The downtowns and urban areas generally aren't that big either. I have visited both Charlotte and Nashville. I was really impressed with about 5-6 blocks in Charlotte. But, you get outside of that little 1/2 mile squared area, and it gets real spread out fast with tons of single-family homes on large lots for as far as the eye can see.

[ex-burgher]

Originally Posted by Tiger Beer

I was really impressed with about 5-6 blocks in Charlotte. But, you get outside of that little 1/2 mile squared area, and it gets real spread out fast with tons of single-family homes on large lots for as far as the eye can see.

You are right on the money about that. Charlotte is actually a very appealing city for those (and there are many) who want to live in a suburban environment and still be very close to downtown. It's not for people who want density. Density is increasing though along the light rail.
However Charlotte is more liberal in other areas as well - knocked down the anti-gay marriage amendment (which unfortunately passed the state), voted for sales tax increase for light rail, and generally supports schools, parks, building of sidewalks, etc. (most bond issues are voted up)

[trackstar13]

Originally Posted by juliegt

It already has in Austin. Home prices there are going up, up, up.

You are right about this, I didn't realize how much Austin has been appreciating. Homes used to be similarly priced in Austin and Pittsburgh just a few years ago. I just checked Trulia today and what I found out was interesting:

Austin median list price = $142,300
Increase from last year = +19.5%

Pittsburgh median list price = $134,175
Increase from last year = +5.4%

It appears that Austin home prices have vaulted above Pittsburgh and an almost 20% increase in one year is insane.

[SteelCityRising]

Originally Posted by track2514

You are right about this, I didn't realize how much Austin has been appreciating. Homes used to be similarly priced in Austin and Pittsburgh just a few years ago. I just checked Trulia today and what I found out was interesting:

Austin median list price = $142,300
Increase from last year = +19.5%

Pittsburgh median list price = $134,175
Increase from last year = +5.4%

It appears that Austin home prices have vaulted above Pittsburgh and an almost 20% increase in one year is insane.

With that being said the 5.4% annual median price increase in Pittsburgh is also concerning because our wages have remained relatively stagnant. If a home that was listed for just under $127,000 in 2012 is now listed for over $134,000 in 2013, an increase of just over $7,000, then by 2020 that same home will be listed for around $185,000. Will median wages rise enough by then to keep pace, or will the housing market become all that more unattainable for entry-level homebuyers by that time?

[ferraris]

Originally Posted by SteelCityRising

With that being said the 5.4% annual median price increase in Pittsburgh is also concerning because our wages have remained relatively stagnant. If a home that was listed for just under $127,000 in 2012 is now listed for over $134,000 in 2013, an increase of just over $7,000, then by 2020 that same home will be listed for around $185,000. Will median wages rise enough by then to keep pace, or will the housing market become all that more unattainable for entry-level homebuyers by that time?

I agree with you on this, but I think the blame lays on wages and not the housing market. There's also a school of though that the Pittsburgh housing market is "correcting" itself after a few decades of being undervalued, so the appreciation may slow down.

[SteelCityRising]

Originally Posted by ferrarisnowday

I agree with you on this, but I think the blame lays on wages and not the housing market. There's also a school of though that the Pittsburgh housing market is "correcting" itself after a few decades of being undervalued, so the appreciation may slow down.

I am finally getting off my typical "East End Housing Crisis" soapbox and agree that the housing market here isn't the problem---it's wage stagnation. I worked for one of the "big boys" in town and still have many friends that work/have worked at a few of them. Many of them earn the same wages they have been earning for several years now without a pay increase (including my partner), and many are also earning the same wage others in their position earned in the early-2000s. Pittsburgh's not "expensive", but we're not as cheap as we were when those wages were truly RELEVANT. It really says something when a college graduate employed as a financial consultant (moi) had to work a second job to live comfortably when I probably would have been able to just work one job earning that same wage in the early-2000s here.

Yes, there most certainly ARE some well-paid people here. The problem is that not everyone can be an attorney with Edgar Snyder, the director of cardiovascular surgery for UPMC, a senior partner with PwC, the CFO of PNC, or a tenured department head at CMU. If Pittsburgh's median home listing price in 2020 will be around $200,000, then that will take an annual income of around $67,000 to comfortably afford going by the old adage that your home's purchase price should generally not be more than thrice your annual gross salary. How many people do you know who earn around $70,000? Perhaps I don't hang around the "right" folks, but I can't think of many at all. My partner and I don't even earn that combined, and we both work well in excess of 40 hours per week.

[ferraris]

Originally Posted by SteelCityRising

If Pittsburgh's median home listing price in 2020 will be around $200,000, then that will take an annual income of around $67,000 to comfortably afford going by the old adage that your home's purchase price should generally not be more than thrice your annual gross salary.

As an aside, I think that the old adage you reference is losing its relevancy due to student loans. Perhaps an adage about total debt load compared to income would be more appropriate these days. I know a lot of people who have student loans greater than their mortgage amount or their rent payment.

[Goodjules]

Originally Posted by track2514

You are right about this, I didn't realize how much Austin has been appreciating. Homes used to be similarly priced in Austin and Pittsburgh just a few years ago. I just checked Trulia today and what I found out was interesting:

Austin median list price = $142,300
Increase from last year = +19.5%

Pittsburgh median list price = $134,175
Increase from last year = +5.4%

It appears that Austin home prices have vaulted above Pittsburgh and an almost 20% increase in one year is insane.

I happen to have friends there so I hear about the market. I'm not usually up on real estate markets outside of the Bay Area and Pittsburgh.