Houses as cute as a button--and very historic, too! (Pittsburgh: wood floors, section 8)

[The King of Um]

Being very new to the city, I've never been to Sheraden, Elliott, or anywhere on the West End. Is that area comparable to a declining North Side neighborhood like Marshall-Shadeland?

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by alleghenyangel

Because the West End is unfashionable.

It's a bit more complicated than that. There's also the closure of the projects in Fairywood which contributed.

I know you guys like the West End for obvious reasons, but I do feel like out of all of the regions of the city, it will be the longest haul to turn around. It just doesn't have much of what modern urbanists want in city neighborhoods. Well over half of is suburban (a mixture of postwar and interwar), and even the 19th century portions of it tend to lack things like brick houses and walkable business districts. I expect the Southern Hilltop will become fashionable eventually though.

Originally Posted by Hip Priest

Being very new to the city, I've never been to Sheraden, Elliott, or anywhere on the West End. Is that area comparable to a declining North Side neighborhood like Marshall-Shadeland?

Sheraden is a big neighborhood. Segments are similar to Brighton Heights (1910-1940 construction in various styles), while the older portions are built out in a 19th century frame style which common in the hilly portions of Pittsburgh - particularly in the Southern Hilltop.

[I_Like_Spam]

Originally Posted by juliegt

Yeah, those hills in Beechview are something! have you seen the Youtube video of the ice covered Fallowfield St. hill with cars careening down it?

Why is Sheraden declining?

The former residents of razed housing project units had to move someplace and Sheraden was nearby.


The area collapsed pretty quickly, my brother's first apartment was over there back in the 80's- same with a lot of my friends. I graduated from Langley back in the day.

[Goodjules]

Originally Posted by I_Like_Spam

The former residents of razed housing project units had to move someplace and Sheraden was nearby.


The area collapsed pretty quickly, my brother's first apartment was over there back in the 80's- same with a lot of my friends. I graduated from Langley back in the day.

There was a review by a teacher at Langley on greatschools.net saying how Langley was not nearly as bad as people thought and how she loved teaching there. I probably read it a few years ago when my kids were still in high school and I was considering different areas to move to.

[I_Like_Spam]

Originally Posted by juliegt

There was a review by a teacher at Langley on greatschools.net saying how Langley was not nearly as bad as people thought and how she loved teaching there. I probably read it a few years ago when my kids were still in high school and I was considering different areas to move to.

I graduated from Langley back in 1974, and my siblings were out of the school by the end of the 70's.

Different world back then, although now the school is closed and the high school children in the area are sent to Brashaer.

When I was in school, Langley's attendance was at its peak of well over 2000 and there were demountable classrooms built out in back of the building. The school covered grades 7 to 12 back then as well.

[I_Like_Spam]

Originally Posted by Hip Priest

Housing projects of any kind, in any city, should never have been built in the first place. While the projects are there, crime spills over. After they close, those who formerly lived there invade the community and become its downfall. They ruin neighborhoods and surrounding areas, just as you've suggested they've done in Sheraden.
.

Back in the 60's, there wasn't nearly the crime problem in the projects as there was in later days.

Sometime back then, the housing authorities started renting to anyone including teenage girls with troublesome boyfriends and anyone else and they relaxed the previous rules for living there.

The places started going to heck in a handbasket when they relaxed the standards

[PreservationPioneer]

I'll give a more detailed break down of the West End neighborhoods.

Esplen: 19th century residential neighborhood along Ohio River, with beautiful views of the river. Modest frame homes from the 1870s-1890s abound. Most of them are in poor condition. Much of the neighborhood has been demolished in the last four years I have lived nearby. It is considered reasonably safe, probably because it is depopulated. Most of the population is the "yinzer" stereotype and older people. Like most city neighborhoods, the schools suck, so that is keeping people away. The biggest problem, though, is perception. Like I've said before, it's unfashionable to live in the West End. Most of the young people I know wouldn't be caught dead here. However, that's what makes it appealing to me. It's one of the few areas left in Pittsburgh that isn't over-rated.

Elliott: This is a hill-top neighborhood above the West End Village. Housing is mostly modest frame homes, much of it dating from before 1872, as indicated by the GM Hopkins maps. There is also a good deal of housing from the 1880s-1910s, and some areas with newer housing still. It is more intact than Esplen, and still contains what appears to be an element of middle class, but is mostly working class, older adults, and the welfare crowd. Like Esplen, the main thing holding it back is perception, as it is one of the safer neighborhoods in the city. The West End overlook is here.

West End: There is a small neighborhood within the greater West End called the "West End." It includes a small business district, residential section, and beautiful park. There are some substantial businesses in the business district, including Artifacts and The Village Tavern and Trattoria, two of my favorite places in Pittsburgh. The housing here is mostly 19th century Victorians, and a mix of frame and brick. The oldest house in Pittsburgh, the Old Stone Tavern, is located here. It was built in the 18th century.

Windgap: Lovely depression era and postwar suburban community in the city. Very safe, cute mid century and colonial homes.

Crafton Heights: If you can't afford Crafton, or want to be in the city limits. The houses are less grand, but still very nice for the most part. Again, I never hear of any crime in this area. There are some old stage coach stops on Steuben Street that may date to the early 1800s or late 1700s.

Sheraden: Probably the only West End neighborhood you will ever hear of crime happening in. That said, it still feels pretty safe to me. You have a lot of turn of the century and later brick homes, especially yellow brick and four squares. There are some row homes from circa 1910 in the mix. On the western side of Sheraden Park, you have some beautiful neighborhoods equivalent to what you might find in Regent Square. You also have neighborhoods like Corliss, which almost always seem to be lumped in with Sheraden, but are actually stable middle class suburbs in the city.

[PreservationPioneer]

Originally Posted by Hip Priest

Being very new to the city, I've never been to Sheraden, Elliott, or anywhere on the West End. Is that area comparable to a declining North Side neighborhood like Marshall-Shadeland?

Most of the West End (aside from Sheraden) has lower crime rates than the declining areas of the upper North Side. I think Marshall-Shadeland is in worse shape than Elliott or the West End, but certainly seems more intact than Esplen. The suburban city neighborhoods, like Windgap and Corliss, are probably equivalent to Brighton Heights. So, to answer your question, I think both Marshall-Shadeland and, for instance, Sheraden are in decline, however I think Marshall has fallen further and for a longer period of time than any of the West End neighborhoods except for Esplen (which is safer).

[Q-tip motha]

Originally Posted by pred66

I will chime in and say that you have to look at a realtors job,
Simply they get paid to sell houses, The more expensive a house the more they gat paid, So when you look at their motivation to sell you will see that they know most about the houses which sell the most and fastest which is usually in stable and growing parts of the city and the more expensive places. IE, Lawrenceville and the like.
Looking into the future may not be the realtors best talents.

No kidding.

Before we bought our current home my wife and I looked at a multi family unit down the hill from where we lived on Brereton in Polish Hill. The place was slightly above 100k (cheap by a multi's standards), and needed work from what I could see. Realtor didn't seem interested in the least to be there, and if I'm not mistaken she was about 30 minutes late in showing up. Probably the worst experience either of us have ever had from a Realtor.


On the other hand you have the Realtor we used when we found our current home. She tried to suggest places in areas with more resale value, but when we mentioned Troy Hill she didn't flinch. She found a number of places in our price range, and one of them we ended up buying. She did a fantastic job throughout the whole process as we had to deal with a crazy old Croatian lady as the seller. In return we've referred her to just about everyone we know who's looking for a home.

[The King of Um]

Originally Posted by alleghenyangel

I'll give a more detailed break down of the West End neighborhoods.

Esplen: 19th century residential neighborhood along Ohio River, with beautiful views of the river. Modest frame homes from the 1870s-1890s abound. Most of them are in poor condition. Much of the neighborhood has been demolished in the last four years I have lived nearby. It is considered reasonably safe, probably because it is depopulated. Most of the population is the "yinzer" stereotype and older people. Like most city neighborhoods, the schools suck, so that is keeping people away. The biggest problem, though, is perception. Like I've said before, it's unfashionable to live in the West End. Most of the young people I know wouldn't be caught dead here. However, that's what makes it appealing to me. It's one of the few areas left in Pittsburgh that isn't over-rated.

Elliott: This is a hill-top neighborhood above the West End Village. Housing is mostly modest frame homes, much of it dating from before 1872, as indicated by the GM Hopkins maps. There is also a good deal of housing from the 1880s-1910s, and some areas with newer housing still. It is more intact than Esplen, and still contains what appears to be an element of middle class, but is mostly working class, older adults, and the welfare crowd. Like Esplen, the main thing holding it back is perception, as it is one of the safer neighborhoods in the city. The West End overlook is here.

West End: There is a small neighborhood within the greater West End called the "West End." It includes a small business district, residential section, and beautiful park. There are some substantial businesses in the business district, including Artifacts and The Village Tavern and Trattoria, two of my favorite places in Pittsburgh. The housing here is mostly 19th century Victorians, and a mix of frame and brick. The oldest house in Pittsburgh, the Old Stone Tavern, is located here. It was built in the 18th century.

Windgap: Lovely depression era and postwar suburban community in the city. Very safe, cute mid century and colonial homes.

Crafton Heights: If you can't afford Crafton, or want to be in the city limits. The houses are less grand, but still very nice for the most part. Again, I never hear of any crime in this area. There are some old stage coach stops on Steuben Street that may date to the early 1800s or late 1700s.

Sheraden: Probably the only West End neighborhood you will ever hear of crime happening in. That said, it still feels pretty safe to me. You have a lot of turn of the century and later brick homes, especially yellow brick and four squares. There are some row homes from circa 1910 in the mix. On the western side of Sheraden Park, you have some beautiful neighborhoods equivalent to what you might find in Regent Square. You also have neighborhoods like Corliss, which almost always seem to be lumped in with Sheraden, but are actually stable middle class suburbs in the city.

Elliott and West End sound interesting. I'll have to visit those neighborhoods in the near future. Are they walkable? You mentioned before that Elliott is sort of like Spring Garden (but more intact) and Spring Hill.