Houses as cute as a button--and very historic, too! (Pittsburgh: rentals, to buy)

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by Hip Priest

Housing projects of any kind (except for elderly housing), in any city, should never have been built in the first place. While the projects are there, crime spills over. After they close, those who formerly lived there invade the community and become its downfall. They ruin neighborhoods and surrounding areas, just as you've suggested they've done in Sheraden.

It takes two to tango. Remember the vast majority of people in public housing are single mothers, who aren't exactly known for being crime bosses. Probably no more than 10% of project residents are troublemakers - the rest are trying the best they can. The often racist, always over-the-top responses by a community when these displaced people move in contributes as much, if not more, to the decline which follows the introduction of Section 8 rentals into an area.

Originally Posted by Hip Priest

I expect the little bit of crime Spring Hill has is directly attributable to the project up the hill. There's no question, that project is keeping the neighborhood unfashionable. Spring Hill is a cool little neighborhood, and it would be much nicer if not for the project.

It's commonly thought of as a project, but it's actually a Section 8 rental complex.

Originally Posted by alleghenyangel

I'll give a more detailed break down of the West End neighborhoods.

You overlooked the lower West End neighborhoods - Westwood, Oakwood, Ridgemont, and East Carnegie. The former two are considered the gems of the (city part of the) West End. They aren't my cup of tea, of course.

Originally Posted by Hip Priest

Elliott and West End sound interesting. I'll have to visit those neighborhoods in the near future. Are they walkable? You mentioned before that Elliott is sort of like Spring Garden (but more intact) and Spring Hill.

Elliott's biggest issue, IMHO, is the lack of any real business district. There's a significant area in the core of the neighborhood zoned commercial, but you'd never know it going down the main thoroughfare. If it had a business district to speak of, I think it could improve to maybe the desirability of Beechview or something overnight.

The West End Village is different. What's left of it is great. It was originally a small, brick Victorian neighborhood in and around the core (which was around four blocks). Sadly, around half of it was demolished. It also has very poor pedestrian linkage to downtown or South Side, despite being nearby.

[Goodjules]

Originally Posted by eschaton

The West End Village is different. What's left of it is great. It was originally a small, brick Victorian neighborhood in and around the core (which was around four blocks). Sadly, around half of it was demolished. It also has very poor pedestrian linkage to downtown or South Side, despite being nearby.

Crafton is minutes away from the West End by car. I have been to the James Gallery, the huge antique store, the Village Tavern, and the tile store there. All nice places. There doesn't seem to be any mundane retail like a grocery store, shoe repair, dry cleaners, etc. that would make it convenient for walking if you lived close by. Does anyone know if there are those kinds of businesses within walking distance in the West End? If you're driving, Crafton has those kinds of businesses and is only a few miles away.

I think if more of the storefronts on South Main were occupied and more of the nearby homes were renovated, the West End could see a real resurgence. It's a relatively small area so it won't be another Lawrenceville, but it has potential to be better than it is now (which isn't too bad at all).

[PreservationPioneer]

Originally Posted by Hip Priest

Elliott and West End sound interesting. I'll have to visit those neighborhoods in the near future. Are they walkable? You mentioned before that Elliott is sort of like Spring Garden (but more intact) and Spring Hill.

Elliott and West End are about as walkable as Spring Garden and Spring Hill. Some of the hills are steep, but there are sidewalks. You get a good workout!

Don't forget that the West End includes the residential neighborhood up on the hill by West End Park, which includes houses like these:

[I_Like_Spam]

Originally Posted by juliegt

Crafton is minutes away from the West End by car. I have been to the James Gallery, the huge antique store, the Village Tavern, and the tile store there. All nice places. There doesn't seem to be any mundane retail like a grocery store, shoe repair, dry cleaners, etc. that would make it convenient for walking if you lived close by. Does anyone know if there are those kinds of businesses within walking distance in the West End? If you're driving, Crafton has those kinds of businesses and is only a few miles away.

There used to be all kinds of stores in the West End- now called the "West End Village" by the city.

Far more than half of the homes and businesses have seen the wrecking ball down there, as well as numerous homes on Steuben, in the alleys, on Independence St, Noblestown Rd. When I was a kid, there was a 5&10, state store, several restaurants and clubs, a big Krogers where the electric supply company is on S. Main, several churches that were burned.

Down at the West End Circle, they had an interested maze of city steps for public transit commuter to make transfers to and from the McKees Rocks bound busses that passed underneath.

[Goodjules]

Originally Posted by alleghenyangel

Elliott and West End are about as walkable as Spring Garden and Spring Hill. Some of the hills are steep, but there are sidewalks. You get a good workout!

Don't forget that the West End includes the residential neighborhood up on the hill by West End Park, which includes houses like these:

Thanks for the photos. I have to explore the area more. I hope it continues to improve.

[Hopes]

The uninhabited island proposal is similar to when England sent prisoners to Australia.

[Tallysmom]

Originally Posted by juliegt

Some neighborhoods do improve dramatically, others not so much. The problem is you don't know which way a sketchy neighborhood will go when you take the risk to buy there. I hope you at least have decent equity in your place.

Not so much -- I'm in the 2nd worse zip in Oakland.... we lost about 75% of the run up value in the boom. At one point, my house was the same 1987 price as one in the neighborhood -- luckily I found out it was stripped... so having a house the same size and era meant I had a LITTLE equity left.

BUT -- we refused to take out any "faquity" when we refi-ed in 2005. (I just made up that term -- fake equity). The bank thought we were crazy. But that meant we had a $450 mortgage payment.

At this point, should we have to leave the area, we can rent our house for 1500 bucks, which will cover mortgage, taxes and insurance, and give us a little income. That might be the way we go if it doesn't sell in a few years, when we are really ready to retire and move back.

But the good part is -- I may complain about my house, but I do love it. It's an adorable California Bungalow, well set up. And it hasn't been stripped of it's identity. It still has the built ins, the 6 inch base boards and the picture moulding, which everyone thinks is crown because it's so near the ceiling -- but you can use the hooks to hang pictures.

It's small, but it flows well -- with an indoor laundry space. No one has that out here. The closets are largish, but not very accessible. I'd like to have a double door put in ours -- that would make it very accessible... but the door would have to be custom, because sliders don't work in a 1924 era home. No dishwasher -- but we don't need it.

The wood floors need refinished and a little repair. (Hey look -- my Pittsburghese snuck in!) Not gonna do that with all the cats. When we go to sell it, my plan is to have already purchased the new home, done what we need to do to it and moved the felines and our goods, leaving us to hire out the floors and get the old house ready for sale.

Doesn't hurt that we're having another little housing boomlet here. Might even help us in the poor parts...

I figure with all we've dumped in we could sell right now and might make it back.

[Goodjules]

Originally Posted by Tallysmom

Not so much -- I'm in the 2nd worse zip in Oakland.... we lost about 75% of the run up value in the boom. At one point, my house was the same 1987 price as one in the neighborhood -- luckily I found out it was stripped... so having a house the same size and era meant I had a LITTLE equity left.

BUT -- we refused to take out any "faquity" when we refi-ed in 2005. (I just made up that term -- fake equity). The bank thought we were crazy. But that meant we had a $450 mortgage payment.

At this point, should we have to leave the area, we can rent our house for 1500 bucks, which will cover mortgage, taxes and insurance, and give us a little income. That might be the way we go if it doesn't sell in a few years, when we are really ready to retire and move back.

But the good part is -- I may complain about my house, but I do love it. It's an adorable California Bungalow, well set up. And it hasn't been stripped of it's identity. It still has the built ins, the 6 inch base boards and the picture moulding, which everyone thinks is crown because it's so near the ceiling -- but you can use the hooks to hang pictures.

It's small, but it flows well -- with an indoor laundry space. No one has that out here. The closets are largish, but not very accessible. I'd like to have a double door put in ours -- that would make it very accessible... but the door would have to be custom, because sliders don't work in a 1924 era home. No dishwasher -- but we don't need it.

The wood floors need refinished and a little repair. (Hey look -- my Pittsburghese snuck in!) Not gonna do that with all the cats. When we go to sell it, my plan is to have already purchased the new home, done what we need to do to it and moved the felines and our goods, leaving us to hire out the floors and get the old house ready for sale.

Doesn't hurt that we're having another little housing boomlet here. Might even help us in the poor parts...

I figure with all we've dumped in we could sell right now and might make it back.

The housing market that drove me to Pittsburgh may give you a bit more equity. That's good news. You have a very exit strategy for when you're ready. Do you think you'd move back to the Pittsburgh area?

"Need refinished" I caught that! I remember my realtor commenting on everything that "needs done" in the houses I was looking at. I'm getting used to the Pittsburghese now that I've been here awhile. haven't caught myself using it yet, but I suppose i'll pick some of it up over time.

[PreservationPioneer]

Originally Posted by juliegt

The housing market that drove me to Pittsburgh may give you a bit more equity. That's good news. You have a very exit strategy for when you're ready. Do you think you'd move back to the Pittsburgh area?

"Need refinished" I caught that! I remember my realtor commenting on everything that "needs done" in the houses I was looking at. I'm getting used to the Pittsburghese now that I've been here awhile. haven't caught myself using it yet, but I suppose i'll pick some of it up over time.

I don't think it's necessarily Pittsburghese. I'm from Michigan and I do that. I think it's just lazy speech. Or maybe four years in Stowe has turned me into a Yinzer?

[Tallysmom]

Originally Posted by juliegt

The housing market that drove me to Pittsburgh may give you a bit more equity. That's good news. You have a very exit strategy for when you're ready. Do you think you'd move back to the Pittsburgh area?

"Need refinished" I caught that! I remember my realtor commenting on everything that "needs done" in the houses I was looking at. I'm getting used to the Pittsburghese now that I've been here awhile. haven't caught myself using it yet, but I suppose i'll pick some of it up over time.

I'd like to move back, because my sisters are there -- well -- one, the other is in Maryland, and my nieces and nephew and "the grandcendants" (grand nephew and niece -- and hopefully more to come)

And when we moved to CA in 1984, CA was cool. Now -- not so much. The great mallization has pretty much taken over.