Pittsburgh gets love from K-thug.

[tabinekotaro]

Originally Posted by Devout Urbanist

A ridiculous comparison. The Hill District has some rough spots, but it is nothing like the areas near downtown Detroit. It is not an isolated ghost town surrounded by abandoned factories like Delray. There are still middle-class people -- black and white -- in the Hill District. Sugar Top is not a "ghetto." Crawford Square, which is the part of the Hill adjacent to downtown, is not a "ghetto." The bad areas around downtown Detroit make the Hill District seem like Mayberry.

This, absolutely. I grew up in SE Michigan, and have never seen anything like the ring of desolation that surrounds downtown Detroit anywhere else. (And I have lived in other cities with bad crime problems.) Detroit is sprawly in a way that Pittsburgh cannot be, because of its topography. Partly because of the the sprawl, but also because of many other factors, Detroit proper became emptied out and fragmented long before the economic meltdown. Detroit has good areas and some great cultural amenities, but they are not connected to each other, whereas in Pittsburgh you're able to travel from downtown out to the other thriving areas without having to pass through major areas of blight. I'm a newcomer, but the city to me seems to have retained its concentration of vibrancy. For good or bad, the bad areas of Pittsburgh are geographically contained and largely avoidable. The same can't be said for Detroit, and I do think this hurts it.

Another big difference is that Pittsburgh's "eds and meds" revolution was made possible partly because of the presence of two world-class universities. Detroit has what, Wayne State? It's not a bad school by any means, but it's no Pitt or CMU. The closest world-class uni to Detroit is in Ann Arbor, which does not identify culturally with Detroit at all. The concentration of highly educated people already existed in Pittsburgh, and could be built upon. It's hard to build that from scratch in someplace like Detroit.

I have great sentimental memories of Detroit--some of my first memories are of being in its old Chinatown. It was still somewhat vibrant in the early 80s, but by 2000, there was one lone (but great) restaurant hanging on, and the last time I was there the owners had to lock the door with all the customers inside because a naked man was banging on the door demanding food. Very sad. When I drove through a couple years ago, the whole neighborhood was boarded up, half demolished, or burned down.

I still think it is a beautiful city, but I don't know what it's path forward is. The difference is night and day between Detroit and Pittsburgh.

[Joe Magarac]

Originally Posted by Devout Urbanist

The Hill District has some rough spots, but it is nothing like the areas near downtown Detroit. It is not an isolated ghost town surrounded by abandoned factories like Delray. There are still middle-class people -- black and white -- in the Hill District. Sugar Top is not a "ghetto." Crawford Square, which is the part of the Hill adjacent to downtown, is not a "ghetto." The bad areas around downtown Detroit make the Hill District seem like Mayberry.

I stand corrected. I don't know if I'd ever call the Hill District Mayberry, but as a white guy I have biked or walked through any number of times with no issues.

I do think that the Hill District is a "ghetto" in the literal sense of the word - a "ghetto" is a place where one group of people, distinct from the larger community, lives (think "Jewish ghetto"), and the Hill District is well over 90% black.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by Joe Magarac

I stand corrected. I don't know if I'd ever call the Hill District Mayberry, but as a white guy I have biked or walked through any number of times with no issues.

I do think that the Hill District is a "ghetto" in the literal sense of the word - a "ghetto" is a place where one group of people, distinct from the larger community, lives (think "Jewish ghetto"), and the Hill District is well over 90% black.

The Hill District is more like 80% black. Much of this is because one of Pitt's dorms is now in what the city defines as Terrace Village, but there are white people living in substantial numbers in Crawford Square, Oak Hill, Schenley Heights, and some of the streets by Bigelow Boulevard. If you include the former Civic Arena area (which the city has annexed to Downtown), the number is even higher, as there are a few overwhelmingly white residential towers.

[Joe Magarac]

Originally Posted by eschaton

The Hill District is more like 80% black.

Per the 2010 Census, which I checked before my prior post, here's how the various districts which make up the Hill shake out:

Crawford-Roberts: 87.2% black
Bedford Dwellings: 95.9% black
Upper Hill (Sugar Top): 86.8% black
Middle Hill: 96.8% black
Terrace Village: 95.4% black

Totals = 10,390 black + 670 white = 93.9% black

I didn't list "others" but they would not have made a difference here. If there is a better source than the census data, one which could account for a couple thousand extra white folks, I'd like to hear about it.

[speagles84]

Originally Posted by eschaton

The Hill District is more like 80% black. Much of this is because one of Pitt's dorms is now in what the city defines as Terrace Village, but there are white people living in substantial numbers in Crawford Square, Oak Hill, Schenley Heights, and some of the streets by Bigelow Boulevard. If you include the former Civic Arena area (which the city has annexed to Downtown), the number is even higher, as there are a few overwhelmingly white residential towers.

You canNOT call Oak Hill "one of Pitt's dorms". Its a mixed income community that is near west Oakland. The school actually advises against living there. There is no affiliation with the university whatsoever. I hear the bad stories from a few students that live there and say its louder than the towers in the center of Oakland where all the freshman live.