If you have a boy in school, you better really teach them well. WOW, "mean girl's day" (school district, living)

[erieguy]

Originally Posted by Craziaskowboi

Punishment for false accusations of crime should be reciprocal to punishment for the crimes themselves. That'll put an abrupt and merciful end to this bull****.

Bingo

[gladhands]

Originally Posted by Salmonburgher

You are free to believe anything you like.

I too believe that many real sexual assault cases go unreported or are dismissed due to the difficulty in proving.

Nonetheless, we should be very careful not to discard our notions of the presumption of innocence and due process and our requirement that charges/accusations be proved beyond a reasonable doubt.

There are indeed many cases of false accusation, and too many innocent people sit behind bars.

The presumption of innocence is for the criminal justice system. I find it interesting that sexual assault is the only crime where so-called uninterested parties openly question the victim. If I say my car got stolen, no one is going to ask me to prove that I didn’t give it away.

[xdv8]

Originally Posted by Salmonburgher

I am a champion for due process for all accused, men and women alike, regardless of the charge.

I like consistency.

Women today do receive due process if they access the system.

Do you think that the backlog of untested rape kits is fair due process for women?

What is the Rape Kit Backlog? | ENDTHEBACKLOG

That's just one aspect of the problem. You absolutely cannot scream due process when it suits your gender until you have screamed it louder and more consistently about the actual problem. Men being accused and not being afforded due process is just not rampant so your call for consistency is laughable.

[Lost_In_Translation]

Originally Posted by gladhands

The presumption of innocence is for the criminal justice system. I find it interesting that sexual assault is the only crime where so-called uninterested parties openly question the victim. If I say my car got stolen, no one is going to ask me to prove that I didn’t give it away.

If the person your accusing of stealing your car is your best friend you’re mad at, police would question whether you let them borrow your car initially and then we’re just upset that they didn’t return it when you wanted them too, culminating in you accusing them of theft. Difference being your friend can rectify the situation (assuming they didn’t wreck it). You can’t fix a bad sexual encounter and our society holds up a woman’s sexual activity to near divine all proportions, making sexual assault some sort of holy obscenity compared with just beating someone up or stealing their money. Sexual assault is assault. It’s americans views about sex that are the problem and what’s really creating the battle between men and women. If men stopped holding women’s sex lives to such devine importance, the implications and consequences of assault could be dealt with without as much drama as is created.

Also, whether it be men or women, keep your damn hands to yourself. It’s not hard.

[Salmonburgher]

Originally Posted by gladhands

The presumption of innocence is for the criminal justice system. I find it interesting that sexual assault is the only crime where so-called uninterested parties openly question the victim. If I say my car got stolen, no one is going to ask me to prove that I didn’t give it away.

Really?

Have you heard of George Zimmerman?

Know what an insurance investigator does?

[Salmonburgher]

Originally Posted by xdv8

Do you think that the backlog of untested rape kits is fair due process for women?

What is the Rape Kit Backlog? | ENDTHEBACKLOG

That's just one aspect of the problem. You absolutely cannot scream due process when it suits your gender until you have screamed it louder and more consistently about the actual problem. Men being accused and not being afforded due process is just not rampant so your call for consistency is laughable.

Look, I agree that there are difficulties in proving accusations of rape and sexual assault. Its an unfortunate reality.

Unfortunately, many times there will be no witnesses and there will be very little probative evidence, either way.

I don't have the answer.

But, I know that when a victim comes forward as soon as is practically possible, the chances of conducting a good investigation are enhanced.

I sympathize with true victims.

But, I am not willing to scrap our notions and applications of the presumption of innocence and due process, and the requirement that an accusation be proved beyond a reasonable doubt.

By the way, men and boys (my gender) are victims of rape and sexual assault, too, and an argument can be made that it is just as if not more difficult for men and boys who are victims to bring and prove allegations.

[xdv8]

Originally Posted by Salmonburgher

But, I am not willing to scrap our notions and applications of the presumption of innocence and due process, and the requirement that an accusation be proved beyond a reasonable doubt.

I am listening. Are you? Who is saying we scrap the presumption of innocence?

How often does due process fail for the accused? That's my point. You are using that as a red herring and misdiagnosing the problem. It's made worse by you insisting that you really do believe the REAL victims. That's so very bold of you to step out on that limb.

It's this simple: you should be applauding every woman who comes forward because in this system they are risking everything. What kept them from doing so before is the reality that they don't get a fair shake or due process. But you can only say anything as long as you can insist on some irrelevant asterisk. You would make it sound like the slightest whisper and the accused man is in jail for life. Please.

[robrobrob]

Originally Posted by gladhands

The presumption of innocence is for the criminal justice system. I find it interesting that sexual assault is the only crime where so-called uninterested parties openly question the victim. If I say my car got stolen, no one is going to ask me to prove that I didn’t give it away.

Part of the job of the police and the district attorney is to evaluate the credibility of a victim regardless of the crime.

[Goinback2011]

It seems to me schools have a responsibility to protect students, male or female, from sociopaths. These girls are clearly that, and have likely shown signs of this for some time.

[szug-bot]

Originally Posted by gladhands

The presumption of innocence is for the criminal justice system. I find it interesting that sexual assault is the only crime where so-called uninterested parties openly question the victim. If I say my car got stolen, no one is going to ask me to prove that I didn’t give it away.

maybe that is apples to oranges. in the sexual assault example, there is the alleged victim, or the defendent BECOMES a victim. what happens if you lie about the stolen car? no one really is harmed.

oh yes, there ARE people that would question your story. many are secretly cynical of everything. lying and dishonesty are so rampant.