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Tasers and OC sprays are rarely effective is stopping a lethal attack by an armed attacker. Furthermore, those less than effective tools require a means of escape exist for the intended victim.
Law enforcement uses Tasers and OC spray as compliance tools. This is unrealistic for the average citizen or 80 yr. old grandmother in the Wal-Mart parking lot who is attacked.
Again, the constitutionally affirmed right is being ignored by those arguing for restrictive firearm ownership control measures.
You expressed you would eliminate "open carry". Would you similarly eliminate freedom of speech in public or the ability to worship in public? Do you have a "need" to express your opinion in public or worship there or should these be relegated to inside the home as well?
1. I don't worship nor do I care to see people doing so in public. I'd probably think it would be strange to see someone worshipping god or whatever in Wal-Mart.
2. I can't even compare free speech to open gun carry. The two don't coincide or show any similarities.
1. I don't worship nor do I care to see people doing so in public. I'd probably think it would be strange to see someone worshipping god or whatever in Wal-Mart.
2. I can't even compare free speech to open gun carry. The two don't coincide or show any similarities.
the 2 do not coicide? of course they do, if the right to keep and bear arms is taken away and you or others do nothing to stop it, then how do you expect anyone to come to your aid if the right to free speech is being threaten with extinction?
all of the rights given to the people are protected by the 2nd Amendment.
also please remember that some states have in their compact with the federal goverment a guarentee that would in fact nullify that states compact and let that state become their own republic again if they so choose.
MYTH: People in Switzerland are heavily armed. There is an assault weapon in every Swiss home.
TRUTH: It's true that Swiss soldiers are required to keep their assault rifles at home. How big is the Swiss Army? 400,000 (source). There are about 3 million Swiss households (source- PDF file). 400,000/3,000,000= 0.133. Therefore, there is a military assault rifle in about 13% of Swiss homes. Switzerland also has rather strict gun control laws. In Switzerland a permit is required in order to purchase a weapon (The permit shows that you are at least 18 and don't have a criminal record). A permit is also required to carrry a weapon. Such a permit is mostly issued to people who work in security-type occupations. To obtain this permit, you have to demonstrate that you need to carry a weapon and that you know how to handle a gun safely and have knowledge of the law regarding firearms use (source). Soldiers in the Swiss Army are required to store their military weapons at home under lock and key and to undergo regular training. Strict gun laws in Switzerland minimize the dangers of gun ownership. However, such dangers can not be completely eliminated as illustrated by the case of Friedrich Leibacher who rushed into a session of parliament in the Swiss town of Zug. He used his Swiss Army assault rifle and a grenade to murder fourteen people. Eleven of these people were lawmakers (source) .
His math is way off...the current size of the Swiss military is in fact irrelevant, as all adult males are required to undergo training and are issued a rifle. Once they are no longer active, that does not mean those guns are returned, as they may keep the rifle.
On a per-capita basis, Yemen had the second most heavily armed citizenry behind the United States, with 61 guns per 100 people, followed by Finland with 56, Switzerland with 46, Iraq with 39 and Serbia with 38.
1. I don't worship nor do I care to see people doing so in public. I'd probably think it would be strange to see someone worshipping god or whatever in Wal-Mart.
2. I can't even compare free speech to open gun carry. The two don't coincide or show any similarities.
In response to 2.
Why are you unwilling to compare them? It is simplely discussing the open practice of Constitutionally affirmed rights.
Would you have a person who is obviously praying over a meal at a public eatery denied that freedom? Did some bystanders likely cross themselves in public and hold their rosary beads while they watched an attack unfold on US soil and would you have denied them the right to do so?
What you personally care to see (or not see) isn't relevant when it comes to applying the Constitution equally does it?
Back on topic: Violent crimes (assault with a lethal weapon, rape, etc..) against innocent victims (non gang/drug related) have been proven reduced over time when law abiding citizens are not banned from the ability to own/carry arms.
My opinion doesn't have to do with my being European, after all there are a couple of gun lovers here, too. It is just common sense in my view that the fewer guns that are out there, the better.
Maybe you will change your mind once your child is shot at school or wherever...
How one is raised dramatically impacts one's opinions. You're from Germany, a country with some of the msot strict gun laws, a country where the government tries to tell its people guns should be restricted...whether or not you accept it, the place in which you were raised has undoubtedly had an impact on your opinions.
you being european has alot to do with it, since most people in your countries over there do not have the freedom to go out anytime they wish and shoot firearms it makes a big difference in your decisions towards firearms.
as far as my daughters being shot at school, all 3 of my daughters know how to shoot safely and the 2 oldest have permits to carry when they go out or to work.
Most people here talk with each other when they go out, why would anyone even want to shoot firearms?! If that kind of culture and environment influences my way of thinking than obviously in a rather positive way as it is the standard here, which shows in the statistics
It is wonderful to be able to go out anytime during the day or night without even worrying about someone might hurt you. Children play in the streets at 11pm, women go home alone in the dark without being afraid, people don't look the other way in the streets to avoid contact, they deliberately seek contact with, greet and smile at total familiar people as well as total strangers. That makes such a big difference. Since I don't feel like I am missing any freedoms, I have to conclude that society here is simply superior to the US model, sorry to be so direct. It is not meant as an insult, just an observation.
In this country's only two big cities there is more crime, that basic difference is global it seems.
Most people here talk with each other when they go out, why would anyone even want to shoot firearms?! If that kind of culture and environment influences my way of thinking than obviously in a rather positive way as it is the standard here, which shows in the statistics
It is wonderful to be able to go out anytime during the day or night without even worrying about someone might hurt you. Children play in the streets at 11pm, women go home alone in the dark without being afraid, people don't look the other way in the streets to avoid contact, they deliberately seek contact with, greet and smile at total familiar people as well as total strangers. That makes such a big difference. Since I don't feel like I am missing any freedoms, I have to conclude that society here is simply superior to the US model, sorry to be so direct. It is not meant as an insult, just an observation.
In this country's only two big cities there is more crime, that basic difference is global it seems.
Social conditioning is a different topics entirely. The subject at hand is examining the relationship between crime and the Chicago gun ban and if those statistics will decrease with the SCOTUS ruling on McDonald vs. Chicago.
There are many ways to reduce crime; however, those are not the topic of this thread.
Actually yours is an opinion (about the superiority of European society), not a fact. I wouldn't expect a bird whose wings had been clipped or had been bred over generations not to fly to feel it missed flying either. One cannot miss something one has never known.
Social conditioning is a different topics entirely. The subject at hand is examining the relationship between crime and the Chicago gun ban and if those statistics will decrease with the SCOTUS ruling on McDonald vs. Chicago.
There are many ways to reduce crime; however, those are not the topic of this thread.
Actually yours is an opinion (about the superiority of European society), not a fact. I wouldn't expect a bird whose wings had been clipped or had been bred over generations not to fly to feel it missed flying either. One cannot miss something one has never known.
It certainly isn't an opinion that European society is on average safer than the US.
His math is way off...the current size of the Swiss military is in fact irrelevant, as all adult males are required to undergo training and are issued a rifle. Once they are no longer active, that does not mean those guns are returned, as they may keep the rifle.
I have been to Switzerland naturally, people there are very different from Anglo-Saxon cultures. They will never have crime the way Americans have it, it is a totally different culture where life is considered kind of untouchable, very much like in Germany, whether their gun laws are similar or not. Even Swiss big cities are small, without all the problems American cities face. Swiss society is rather egalitarian, there is little poverty, the standard of life is high for everybody.
It is interesting that guns in Switzerland are largely associated with the militia, i.e. the army, not with private citizens. The word militia for Switzerland in my view means what was originally meant in the US constitution, i.e. a kind of military ready to defend the country against foreign forces if necessary. Those arms in Switzerland are not meant to be used against Swiss people. On that page you will also find the differences to US gun laws, for instance regarding carrying guns.
Last edited by Neuling; 06-28-2010 at 02:54 PM..
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