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Where do you get that min wage was not meant to live on?Minimum wage - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Now where there does it say that? Minimum wage was created so people would get fair pay.
Minimum wage was an attempt at keeping people out of poverty. When they started having 8 kids, that's where the system started breaking down, IMHO.
Perhaps you need to do some research on inflation?
There is a difference between a min wage and living wage but there is a reason for that. Min wage jobs are normally reserved for those who have no experience, no skills, and are probably quite young. It's a chance to gain experience and skills and grow up a little while you save to buy your first car and that kind of thing. It's not meant for people to live on for their whole lives. However, if one is working 40 hours a week on min wage and has barely any bills, it's definitely doable.
Either way, the gov't should not be mandating a wage that employers must pay their workers. The market will never support more than it should, the market can take care of itself, and if the gov't would stop interfering, that lesson would have been learned by now.
Maybe you should do a little yourself since you keep assuming that a minor raise for a small select group is going to have that much impact, it hasn't in the past so why would it do so now?????
Maybe you missed it but in economic times such as these there are professional people that are forced to work minimum wage jobs to help support their families. Tell them that they are working, if they are, in a job sector not reserved for them, good luck with that. Oh, now I see what you are talking about some kid living at home, you have not noticed the economy these days?
It doesn't mandate how much they must pay, they just mandate how little you can pay them. Before the government did what was needed America was full of sweat shops working workers 60 plus hours every week for slave wages with no benefits. Now I know what your vision for America is, thanks.
Casper
Having worked in the resturant business myself I know we are not talking minimum wage for most of your employees since waiter and waitresses work for tips and the wage paid by the employeer to them is not even minimum wage since the law does not cover them. You are only talking about busboys here since I would assume you pay your cashiers and cooks more than minimum wage, that does not sound like much of an impact from here, how many busboys do you have? Why on earth would everyone get a raise since most of your employees should be making more than minimum wage? Review your math and just maybe you can figure out that you will not have to lay off anyone, if that does not work for you raise prices just enough to cover the expense, being that the amount is so small no one should care if they paid a few cents more for dinning out.
Casper
Actually, there is another minimum wage set for those who make tips, did you forget about that? It goes up when the regular minimum wage goes up, albeit not nearly as much. I was using my personal experience as an example, so the fact that tippable employees make a different minimum wage has nothing to do with the argument here.
PLEASE, review my math and tell me how it is not correct for any business that does not have tippable employees. Again, you will see my math is correct in that with 385 labor hours per week, pay at minimum wage raised 50 cents an hour would cost me an extra almost $200 a week plus associated payroll taxes.
Once again, no it does not. Your buying power (the worth of your money) remained exactly the same as it had been before someone else has had their pay raised to met the new standard. After that raises should be based on merit only.
Let me ask you this if we both work at a firm and I went in and asked for a raise and was granted one, do you now make less or do you demand you get a raise also. I think not.
Casper
When pay goes up 2 things happen. Employers need to make more money, so the prices for thier goods and services go up, and if possible, they reduce their workforce.
As their prices go up, the prices other people pay for those good/services/and THEIR employees go up, they need to lower overhead and increase income so they lay of unnecessary people, and they increase the costs of their goods and services. Now, that $9.00 an hour YOU were making has reduced purchasing power, now that the costs of good and services you require has increased in proportion to the increased costs because of the increased minimum wage.
Simply read the government report I linked to earlier, it spells it out for you.
Increased minimum wage = increased unemployment, increased costs for good and services, and artificially decreased wages for everyone who's pay has not increased comensurate with the increase in minimum wage. Economics 101.
Maybe you should do a little yourself since you keep assuming that a minor raise for a small select group is going to have that much impact, it hasn't in the past so why would it do so now?????
Why are you getting so angry about this?
Quote:
Maybe you missed it but in economic times such as these there are professional people that are forced to work minimum wage jobs to help support their families. Tell them that they are working, if they are, in a job sector not reserved for them, good luck with that. Oh, now I see what you are talking about some kid living at home, you have not noticed the economy these days?
We are not talking about crap economic times, we are talking about normal economic times. Every statement I've made assumes that, b/c that's what the OP was referring to and that's what we've all been talking about this whole time.
When I said that job sector was reserved for a certain demographic, I did not mean literally, but yes, that's what min wage has come to mean in modern times. Nobody should be trying to support a family while working a min wage job, it is no longer meant to keep people out of poverty, but a way for the gov't to determine how much money it can spend and get the taxpayers further into debt.
Quote:
It doesn't mandate how much they must pay, they just mandate how little you can pay them. Before the government did what was needed America was full of sweat shops working workers 60 plus hours every week for slave wages with no benefits. Now I know what your vision for America is, thanks.
Casper
Right, they mandate how much one must pay, they are mandating the low end of that scale.
As to your last couple statements, I suppose you also support unions, and will kowtow to them for helping out American workers so much.
You are choosing to put words in my mouth and make assumptions b/c you do not want to see the truth. You have no idea my vision for America until you open your eyes and fully comprehend what I'm talking about.
When pay goes up 2 things happen. Employers need to make more money, so the prices for thier goods and services go up, and if possible, they reduce their workforce.
As their prices go up, the prices other people pay for those good/services/and THEIR employees go up, they need to lower overhead and increase income so they lay of unnecessary people, and they increase the costs of their goods and services. Now, that $9.00 an hour YOU were making has reduced purchasing power, now that the costs of good and services you require has increased in proportion to the increased costs because of the increased minimum wage.
Simply read the government report I linked to earlier, it spells it out for you.
Increased minimum wage = increased unemployment, increased costs for good and services, and artificially decreased wages for everyone who's pay has not increased comensurate with the increase in minimum wage. Economics 101.
Just for your reading pleasure, here is a post in another forum about minimum wage, that tells you just what I did, but from someone LIVING it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by heatheru
No, they are not kids. There is that percentage or more just here in TN that are adults working themselves to death and can barely afford a crappy apartment in the bad part of town and struggle to buy bread and sandwich meat on a weekly basis. Here the people on welfare are eating better than the workers. Serious problem. They won't work because they eat better on welfare than they do working. I made 7.00 an hour to be a graphic designer which was 1.50 more than minimum wage at that time... but still crap since I did have to go to school, especially since kids working at a grocery store make more than me. Now I make 7.25, but each and every item I buy went up .20 cents to 1.00, so I'm worse off now than before. Not to mention, I now make the exact same amount as the warehouse workers. It's all just a bunch of crap.
This implies that CEO pay rises at the same rates as others. However, we know that CEO pay as well as other corporate earnings have risen faster (meaning that the top is simply getting the money). If you reduce the money at the top and increase the minimum wage, what you actually are doing is stimulating the economy. That wage increase is going to the sector of the population that spends a higher percentage of their wages on consumer goods. The upper class spend a lower percentage (any tax benefits or wage increases will be invested or saved...not actively spent). So in effect, you are increasing the ability to shop. More consumers means more money for business owners. So yes, it is entirely possible that the richest 1% would see their wages decline...but somehow I think they'll manage. With increased income disparity in the US, we need to seriously think about we can reverse this trend. If we don't we are in danger of diminishing the consumer class, thus doing harm to our economy.
Also, things such as healthcare, education, and housing (in many places) have gone up faster than incomes. Incomes for the poorest have actually gone down in terms of purchasing power. This was not due to increases in the minimum wage, rather this is due to stagnation of income (relative to cost of living). The middle class has seen a slight rise in income vs. cost of living, however it is the rich that has seen the most dramatic rise since the 1980s. This kind of goes back to the whole need to raise the minimum wage to decrease income disparity which has sharply risen since the 1980s.
Minimum wage was an attempt at keeping people out of poverty. When they started having 8 kids, that's where the system started breaking down, IMHO.
I agree that people should not have kids they can not afford but it still does not change that it is meant to live on.
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No it doesn't.
Great explanation.
