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Old 03-15-2011, 09:10 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,026 posts, read 44,824,472 times
Reputation: 13713

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Quote:
Originally Posted by LordBalfor View Post
They will take their chances just the same as ANYONE with a pension and/or 401K takes their chances that THEIR pension and/or 401Ks will be there when they need them. That's a RISK that ANYONE with just investments take. Teachers are NO different.
You seem to not understand that public employee pensions are guaranteed. The only people taking any risk are the WI taxpayers who are on the hook for public employees' greedy demands.
Quote:
The Wisconsin Retirement System provides a guaranteed pension for employees who work for the state, its municipalities, and school districts, excluding city and county of Milwaukee employees.
Government workers get pension edge, study finds - JSOnline
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Old 03-15-2011, 09:13 PM
 
Location: SE Arizona - FINALLY! :D
20,460 posts, read 26,330,678 times
Reputation: 7627
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Bad analogy. Guns are used for purposes other than shooting people.

The analogy is JUST FINE.

The - the money to PAY for the demands has to come from somewhere, and DOYLE left Walker a multi-billion dollar deficit.

And why is that - that "the ONLY only outcome of collectively bargained demands is higher tax bills"? How do you know THAT exactly? You don't know what the future holds. State income goes up for a VERY BIG reason besides "higher tax bills" - and THAT reason is "MORE ECONOMIC ACTIVITY" as the economy EXPANDS.
You seem to think that state income ONLY goes up when taxes go up - when in fact state income drops and climbs ALL THE TIME - even when there is NO CHANGE in the TAX RATE.


So, again, if public employees don't intend to demand any salary or benefits cost increases, they don't need collective bargaining.
It doesn't matter whether or not they NEED them or not - the state doesn't NEED to take them away.

Ken
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Old 03-15-2011, 09:24 PM
 
Location: SE Arizona - FINALLY! :D
20,460 posts, read 26,330,678 times
Reputation: 7627
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
You seem to not understand that public employee pensions are guaranteed. The only people taking any risk are the WI taxpayers who are on the hook for public employees' greedy demands.Government workers get pension edge, study finds - JSOnline
Gee, yet another Conservative Think Tank releases a report critical of governmental salaries.
That's about as unbiased as one generated by the UNIONS.


Ken
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Old 03-15-2011, 09:28 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,026 posts, read 44,824,472 times
Reputation: 13713
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordBalfor View Post
The analogy is JUST FINE.
No, your analogy is flawed. I've already explained why.
Quote:
And why is that - that "the ONLY only outcome of collectively bargained demands is higher tax bills"? How do you know THAT exactly?
Explain where else the money would come from to pay for collectively bargained demands. Keep in mind that Dem Governor Doyle has saddled the state with a $3.6 billion budget deficit.

Quote:
It doesn't matter whether or not they NEED them or not - the state doesn't NEED to take them away.
Again, there's no need for collective bargaining unless the public employees fully intend to force the taxpayers to pay more for the public employees' greedy demands.
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Old 03-15-2011, 09:30 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,026 posts, read 44,824,472 times
Reputation: 13713
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordBalfor View Post
Gee, yet another Conservative Think Tank releases a report critical of governmental salaries.
That's about as unbiased as one generated by the UNIONS.
It was about pensions. And if you dispute the claims in the article, cite your source that says WI public employee pensions aren't guaranteed.
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Old 03-15-2011, 09:35 PM
 
69,368 posts, read 64,108,083 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LordBalfor View Post
What money?
The teachers pension fund is very well funded. Virtually ALL of the audits - except for your single Wingnut one - agree upon that.

Ken
The money for the deficits.. Please try to stay up with the conversation with the rest of us.
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Old 03-15-2011, 09:38 PM
 
Location: SE Arizona - FINALLY! :D
20,460 posts, read 26,330,678 times
Reputation: 7627
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
It was about pensions. And if you dispute the claims in the article, cite your source that says WI public employee pensions aren't guaranteed.
State pension are not guarenteed any more than private pensions are - as several states are in the process of showing.

State Pension Plan Fixes from New Jersey, Minnesota, and Elsewhere

Ken

Last edited by LordBalfor; 03-15-2011 at 10:34 PM..
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Old 03-15-2011, 09:42 PM
 
Location: Tampa Florida
22,229 posts, read 17,855,263 times
Reputation: 4585
Miami throws out Repub Mayor. Recall anyone?

Miami-Dade Voters Remove Mayor Carlos Alvarez : NPR (http://www.npr.org/2011/03/15/134580046/miami-dade-voters-remove-mayor-carlos-alvarez?ft=1&f=1014&sc=tw - broken link)
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Old 03-15-2011, 09:44 PM
 
Location: SE Arizona - FINALLY! :D
20,460 posts, read 26,330,678 times
Reputation: 7627
Quote:
Originally Posted by pghquest View Post
The money for the deficits.. Please try to stay up with the conversation with the rest of us.
The state workers are not the ONLY source of possible cuts in the state budget - just the ONE that YOU seem to PREFER.

Tax increases are not the ONLY source of possible revenue increases for the state - just the ONE that YOU seem FIXATED ON. As I've ALREADY STATED, state revenues go UP and down ALL THE TIME based on improvements or degeneration of the economy. State revenues will climb as the economy improves - the same way it ALWAYS does.

Ken
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Old 03-15-2011, 09:44 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,026 posts, read 44,824,472 times
Reputation: 13713
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordBalfor View Post
State pension are not guarenteed any more than private pension are - as several states are in the process of showing.

State Pension Plan Fixes from New Jersey, Minnesota, and Elsewhere
Wisconsin isn't mentioned in that article. Cite a source that says Wisconsin's public employee pensions aren't guaranteed.
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