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They aren't babies until they are viable. Otherwise, Mother Nature is the biggest killer of babies, because miscarriages outnumber abortions. And it's only your business because you insist on imposing YOUR definitions, and YOUR beliefs on others. A woman who has an abortion isn't imposing her beliefs on you, is she? But you think you can impose your beliefs on her, because she's just a second-class citizen. She's not a man. She's stupid, and irresponsible and immoral. Your willingness to impose yourself on her shows that you don't respect her. And that disrespect is why you feel so free to impose your own values and beliefs on her. And why, after the child is born, you feel so free to criticize her. She's a working mom, well, she's probably neglecting her children. Shame on her! She's a welfare mom, well, she's a leech on society. Shame on her! She's a stay-at-home mom, well, what she does has no monetary value, she's not contributing to the economy. Shame on her!
The state shouldn't have to take care of anyone. That's not what the government is for. You liberals want the state to be it's babysitter and nanny because you are irresponsible with your own selfish life???
You seem confused. You do or do not want to decide what is best for others? You do or do not want the state to have a say in people's lives? You can't have it both ways, so which is it?
I said as long as the baby was in mom's body it's my business. At least as far as the discussion goes about protecting it from abortion.
If you honestly think that I don't care about a 2 week old infant's safety, you've got some issues.
I disagree. I don't know that we can place a dollar amount on that innocent life.
And you can't place a dollar amount on the innocent mother's life. But you can demonstrate that society has over the years made a tremendous investment in the mother, and investment that hasn't been made in the fetus. If you're talking about society's interest, then the investment that has already been made has to be of value to society.
And no, I honestly think highly of you, and I respect that you care strongly about children, both existing, and those yet to exist. I just see it differently, because as a woman, I see how women are not just the sex that gives birth, but also the ones charged with the bulk of the responsibility for raising children. That responsibility in what was a patriarchal society was not held in the high regard that it should have been, in part because women were not considered the equals of men. Today, we are considered the equals, and yet we are still climbing out from the hole of second-class citizenship. And not giving women control over their bodies is a hallmark of second-class citizenship.
I'm not pro-abortion. I would love to see our society have fewer abortions, many less abortions. But if we are to do that, then we have to make it easier for women to have children, easier for men to be more involved with all aspects of child-rearing. We have to have a society that respects women and their choices, that pays people for their work, without discrimination by gender. We have to have a society that respects children, by making sure that all children are adequately cared for and educated, without discrimination by family income. We need women to have affordable healthcare when they are pregnant, and we need workplaces that don't penalize women for getting pregnant. If we can achieve these things, then the reasons women have for seeking abortions won't exist. Yes, you'll still have women who are the victims of incest and rape seeking abortion, rightfully so. And yes, you'll still have women whose health will require abortion. But for the women who are faced with the terrible choice of an unwanted child and a pregnancy that can do them irreparable harm, or an abortion, as a society we need to take away that harm. Take away the threat, and unwanted children will simply become unexpected children. Target the problems, not the women.
Since I had no takers from the "It's my body crowd", I'll see if you have the intellectual honesty to answer this question. At what exact point do you feel that well-off whitemen, as well as others, have the responsibility to protect the child? After the cord is cut? When the baby exits the birth canal? or some other point? If you can't answer this question, maybe you need to rethink your position.
Well since you asked. Anyone who has a PROVEN case of rape or incest should be allowed an abortion within the first trimester. The other scenario would be if the woman's life was in danger, in this case the term limit is set by the physician. All other cases they must be accomplished within 8 weeks of conception and the patient must pay for 75% of the cost not to mention pre counselling before anything takes place.
As far as the protection of the child is concern, why are you just focusing on the child? Why not the human being which includes cradle to the death?
Ok, now it's your turn. what do you do with all of these unwanted children, since you have made it almost impossible for their mothers to abort them? The mother STILL does not want them and all that they are doing is building up resentment and other negative feelings transfered on to the child. Oh, I hear you. Adoption? Please! It is well known that a minority child are least likely to be adopted and end up in foster homes where many of them are abused. White children are more likely to adopted than anyone else. Oh wait! that means that the government will have to take care of them anyway...nix that one.
Lets go back, old school and set up orphanges......Opps! Another liberal handout on the tax payers dime
See nothing is as simple as it seems, and one cannot just act upon something based solely on beliefs or feelings without affecting something else.
Says God and society. But if you're not willing to recognize God's commands to protect the innocent, then consider the fact that protect children and other innocents in all areas of our society.
Why have a police department at all if we don't care to protect the innocent? Why have any laws? Why have welfare?
It is a PROVABLE FACT that since humans began they have ALWAYS made mistakes. They have ALWAYS had fun sex(sorry you don't)....it is HUMAN NATURE and you can wish and say "if" and "should" and "gee, why isn't everbody perfect like me" but that doesn't change a thing....and THAT is the truth whether you LIKE it or not.
Now, I didn't create humans so talk to the sorry being or beings or whatever created them and complain! Because it is a fact that humans didn't create themselves...or we may have created ourselves in your perfect image oh Flawless One!
Quote:
Originally Posted by CTownNative
Nope the responsability for the child should be upon the people who make the child. What is so hard to understand about that? Thats the way its suppouse to be, otherwise why is it that a Man and Woman can create a child together. Their suppouse to just create the baby and move on? But if it so happens that the mother decides to give the child up for adoption than yes the responsability is on the foster care centers to take care of the child and help educate the children and help them to where they will be able to get a good job and have a good life. Some will get adopted, some won't. But they will still be taken care of through the foster system. Its not like if a baby is abandoned that nobody will notice the child and do the right thing which is notifying someone and caring for the baby while waiting for help to arrive.
Read the post above the one of yours I'm quoting...
When sex is no fun I guess WHINING and banging your head against facts is a substitute
For the "It's my body" crowd: At what exact point SHOULD the government protect the child? After the cord is cut? When the baby exits the birth canal? If you can't answer this question, maybe you need to rethink your position.
This is well defined by the law, perhaps you would like to familiarize yourself with, and then return to the discussion. Here's a tiny hint, Google Roe v. Wade.
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