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Old 05-10-2011, 09:57 AM
 
1,811 posts, read 1,210,991 times
Reputation: 503

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Quote:
Originally Posted by victorianpunk View Post
There, I just said it. In America, you can attack religion, attack minorities, but the MINUTE you attack democracy, you're labeled insane. Well, let me provide you with a few scenarios before you go calling me the next Hitler.

Imagine a professor of economics, with an IQ of 147, who's studied the economy and understands the problems we're in when it comes to national debt and all that. Now, imagine Jim Bob Mcgee, with an IQ of 98, who spends his free time watching Bass Masters, shooting at jack rabbits and driving his pickup truck while searching for a blood relative to sleep with. Well, guess what?...

...THEY BOTH HAVE EQUAL SAY IN WHO THE NEXT PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES WILL BE.

That's the problem with "one person, one vote" that few are willing to admit :so many people in America are idiots, that their votes outnumber the votes of those of us with higher IQs.

I take the redneck as an example, but I see it amongst black folks too: so many of them voted for Obama only because he was black. I'm black myself and I did vote for Obama, so please don't call me a racist SOB for saying the truth. Voting for someone just for the color of his skin is STUPID, and anyone who would do so doesn't deserve the right to vote at all.


Now, think about personal freedoms. In California they passed that "Proposition 8" thing because a bunch of idiots got together and voted on it. No sociologists had any say in it, no experts on culture had any say. It was just religious groups scaring people into believing that if gays had the right to marry than somehow straight marriages would be in trouble and churches would have to agree with it and all kinds of BS.


Or, better yet, how about a REAL democracy, i.e., A LYNCH MOB. Thirty racist whites and one innocent black guy next to a tree. They take it to a vote. The results? Thirty to one in favor of lynching the black guy. Democracy rules, and an innocent man is dead as a result.

Democracy is a bad idea...and the founding fathers thought so too. Benjamin Franklin is quoted as saying "democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the results." Jefferson said, "A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine.” Which is why they didn't create a democracy, they created A REPUBLIC.

However, I think that republic needs some serious reforms. First off we can end this whole "ballot initiative" thing. I mean, it didn't start until 1898, long after the founding fathers lived, and has NOTHING to do with the constitution. Honestly, we all know that majority of the unwashed masses are too stupid to understand and make an informed decision on what their voting on anyway. Take that power away from the mob, and put it in the hands of the legislature, who have aides and experts to call on.

Also, we need to reconsider this "one person, one vote" thing. How about we give everyone a standardized IQ test and for every ten points above 100, they get another vote? That way, someone like me (120 IQ) would get more votes than Sarah Palin (-50 IQ)

But really, I don't even think that will be enough. If we are ever to solve this national debt crisis, it will take leaders who are willing to make difficult decisions. Come on, do you really think the unwashed masses will be happy with a President who honestly says "we need to cut defense spending by 1/3 and push the age to receive Social Security up to 70"? Probably not. So, we just clap right along with someone who keeps getting us deeper into debt, whether it's Bush or Obama.


90% of the population are mindless sheep. Sad to say, but it's the honest truth. The winning candidate is the person who can herd the sheep the most effectively. It never has anything to do with who the best candidate is and if you don't believe me, just look at how poorly Ron Paul and Dennis Kucinich did in their primaries.

The sad fact is, the American Sheeple are too dumb to make the system work as it stands now. If you don't believe me, just consider how they ACTUALLY HAD TO RESCHEDULE THE STATE OF THE UNION ADDRESS SO AS NOT TO INTERRUPT AMERICAN IDOL.

The unwashed mob...the REAL problem with America.
Yes, we have a word for them - LIBERALS.

You have way too high of an opinion of yourself, for if your opinion matched your facts, you would have needed only about 1/4 as many words as you used.

Perhaps we should have voting based on tax paying. Pay more taxes, get more votes.

And tell me, what stellar qualifications did Spike present to you to convince you he was qualified? Executive experience - none, business experience - none, military service - none. The fool voted "present" 170 times while an IL State Senator, and you saw fite to vote for him? You voted for him for one reason, and one reason alone - M E L A N I N.
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Old 05-10-2011, 10:49 AM
 
10,545 posts, read 13,589,909 times
Reputation: 2823
Quote:
Originally Posted by victorianpunk View Post
There, I just said it. In America, you can attack religion, attack minorities, but the MINUTE you attack democracy, you're labeled insane. Well, let me provide you with a few scenarios before you go calling me the next Hitler.

Imagine a professor of economics, with an IQ of 147, who's studied the economy and understands the problems we're in when it comes to national debt and all that. Now, imagine Jim Bob Mcgee, with an IQ of 98, who spends his free time watching Bass Masters, shooting at jack rabbits and driving his pickup truck while searching for a blood relative to sleep with. Well, guess what?...

...THEY BOTH HAVE EQUAL SAY IN WHO THE NEXT PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES WILL BE.

That's the problem with "one person, one vote" that few are willing to admit :so many people in America are idiots, that their votes outnumber the votes of those of us with higher IQs.

I take the redneck as an example, but I see it amongst black folks too: so many of them voted for Obama only because he was black. I'm black myself and I did vote for Obama, so please don't call me a racist SOB for saying the truth. Voting for someone just for the color of his skin is STUPID, and anyone who would do so doesn't deserve the right to vote at all.


Now, think about personal freedoms. In California they passed that "Proposition 8" thing because a bunch of idiots got together and voted on it. No sociologists had any say in it, no experts on culture had any say. It was just religious groups scaring people into believing that if gays had the right to marry than somehow straight marriages would be in trouble and churches would have to agree with it and all kinds of BS.


Or, better yet, how about a REAL democracy, i.e., A LYNCH MOB. Thirty racist whites and one innocent black guy next to a tree. They take it to a vote. The results? Thirty to one in favor of lynching the black guy. Democracy rules, and an innocent man is dead as a result.

Democracy is a bad idea...and the founding fathers thought so too. Benjamin Franklin is quoted as saying "democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the results." Jefferson said, "A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine.” Which is why they didn't create a democracy, they created A REPUBLIC.

However, I think that republic needs some serious reforms. First off we can end this whole "ballot initiative" thing. I mean, it didn't start until 1898, long after the founding fathers lived, and has NOTHING to do with the constitution. Honestly, we all know that majority of the unwashed masses are too stupid to understand and make an informed decision on what their voting on anyway. Take that power away from the mob, and put it in the hands of the legislature, who have aides and experts to call on.

Also, we need to reconsider this "one person, one vote" thing. How about we give everyone a standardized IQ test and for every ten points above 100, they get another vote? That way, someone like me (120 IQ) would get more votes than Sarah Palin (-50 IQ)

But really, I don't even think that will be enough. If we are ever to solve this national debt crisis, it will take leaders who are willing to make difficult decisions. Come on, do you really think the unwashed masses will be happy with a President who honestly says "we need to cut defense spending by 1/3 and push the age to receive Social Security up to 70"? Probably not. So, we just clap right along with someone who keeps getting us deeper into debt, whether it's Bush or Obama.


90% of the population are mindless sheep. Sad to say, but it's the honest truth. The winning candidate is the person who can herd the sheep the most effectively. It never has anything to do with who the best candidate is and if you don't believe me, just look at how poorly Ron Paul and Dennis Kucinich did in their primaries.

The sad fact is, the American Sheeple are too dumb to make the system work as it stands now. If you don't believe me, just consider how they ACTUALLY HAD TO RESCHEDULE THE STATE OF THE UNION ADDRESS SO AS NOT TO INTERRUPT AMERICAN IDOL.

The unwashed mob...the REAL problem with America.
Sure you can; you just did and haven't been arrested. Try going to China and such things about their government, then come back and give us a report - if they let you.
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Old 05-10-2011, 12:50 PM
 
6,351 posts, read 9,981,917 times
Reputation: 3491
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffington View Post
Yes, we have a word for them - LIBERALS.

No, it's not just liberals. Plenty of people were scared into voting for Bush in 2004, despite his being the worst candidate. As a result of his refusal to get involved in regulating the banking system we ended up with a bailout that made us even more socialist than China.

Conservatives can be just as much a mindless pack of sheeple as liberals. Difference is the conservatives are guided by idiotic jingoism or religious fanaticism, while the liberals are guided by some hippie ideology.




Quote:
And tell me, what stellar qualifications did Spike present to you to convince you he was qualified? Executive experience - none, business experience - none, military service - none. The fool voted "present" 170 times while an IL State Senator, and you saw fite to vote for him? You voted for him for one reason, and one reason alone - M E L A N I N.

Actually, if you bothered to read you would see that I attacked those who voted for Obama just because he's black. I voted for him because he wasn't McCain and didn't have one of the biggest idiots in the history of human civilization as a running mate.

With McCain, America goes bankrupt creating an empire through wars that last a hundred year. The result is that we become even more hated around the world and people die. With Obama, America goes bankrupt as a result of entitlement programs that at least provide some short term benefit to society, even if they're disastrous in the long term.
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Old 05-10-2011, 12:52 PM
 
6,351 posts, read 9,981,917 times
Reputation: 3491
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rggr View Post
Sure you can; you just did and haven't been arrested. Try going to China and such things about their government, then come back and give us a report - if they let you.

Did I say I liked totalitarianism? Or socialism? For that manner, did I say anything about the Bill of Rights?

I like freedom, but democracy isn't freedom. When we have ballot initiatives that allow the unwashed masses to decide how the other 49% of us live, you can't call it freedom.
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Old 05-10-2011, 12:59 PM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
31,767 posts, read 28,830,565 times
Reputation: 12341
Quote:
Originally Posted by theunbrainwashed View Post
I agree. Repealing the 17th Amendment would make the U.S. Senators beholden to the states again, which form the foundation of our country, NOT D.C...
Might as well repeal it all the way back to Articles of Confederation.
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Old 05-10-2011, 01:02 PM
 
9,848 posts, read 8,285,615 times
Reputation: 3296
The Russians were accurate in saying what the problem with Democracy is that we would eventually vote ourselves the Treasury.
Democrats have been leaning heavy on this hand in the treasury principle well over four decade now and Republicans have been milk toast in not objecting fearing the backlash of people calling them evil for not giving the store away.
We are now broke, wasn't Capitalists that did this, it was a socialism like a cancer sitting at our core.
Give a politician 100% and they spend at least 400%. There is no accountability.
We need to cut the cancer out by putting everything on budget and having a Balanced Budget Amendment.
We are spending so much beyond a few social safety nets. We are ulcerating at a massive scale including creating an ever bulging class of elite government union employees that Presidents of other countries would be envious to have. Just ridiculous and all needs to stop.
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Old 05-10-2011, 01:13 PM
 
6,351 posts, read 9,981,917 times
Reputation: 3491
Quote:
Originally Posted by theunbrainwashed View Post

1. We're not a democracy, and we never have been. This is why the Electoral College exists to help prevent this sort of a problem.
The EC did nothing to prevent the issues we're dealing with now.

Quote:
2. The American people are not stupid. They are brainwashed by corporate and government propaganda and most are zombies as a result. Doesn't mean they are stupid, our government is very good with propaganda and government is totally in bed with the media which is controlled by a handful of companies.
Even before the age of mass corporations the people were, by and large, a dirty mob. Put any silver tongued politician in front of them and they'll listen.

Quote:
3. The idea of freedom is to not be ruled by an oligarchy, which you seem to be calling for an oligarchy of social scientists ruling us.
Certainly qualified people should be in charge. That is not what's happening today. Today, the rednecks and ghetto slime pick the most charismatic person in the beauty pageant to be their leader. Would it be that bad a thing if we had EXPERTS making the important decisions, as opposed to the guy who won the favor of Bubba or Tyrone.


[quote]
4. What affects California only affects California. It's California's fault if they want to practice democracy./quote]

What about all the gays in California who DON'T want the mob telling them how to live? Should they just suck it up and let their rights get snatched away?

Quote:
5. Never argue that people should do something your way because your IQ is higher than others. People don't like being insulted by people who say they are smarter than them and, therefore, should listen to them.
I never said I was the smartest guy in the room. Far from it, there are plenty of people smarter than me who are more knowledgeable on things like economics and policy who should be put in charge. I'm only saying that people the unwashed mob seems to be incapable of putting the right people in charge.

Quote:
Despite a couple flaws to your post, I see what you are saying. People don't see the writing on the wall, and prefer voting for the American Idol president (Obama, Herman Cain, etc.) than one who is not tainted by the establishment oligarchy (Ron Paul, Gary Johnson). My conventional wisdom says, if the media PURPOSELY tries to undermine a candidate like Ron Paul, then that candidate is the real deal and is a THREAT to the fascists that run our government
First of all, why throw the term "fascist" around so casually? These people are not fascist. I don't see a mass militaristic movement based on corporatism/syndicalism, nationalism and right wing populism. Even the Tea Party idiots are in favor of laissez faire economics.

Second, Ron Paul actually got fair media attention. It's just that the GOP base forgot that they were the party of William Taff and Barry Goldwater.
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Old 05-10-2011, 01:14 PM
 
5,915 posts, read 4,815,101 times
Reputation: 1398
Quote:
Originally Posted by victorianpunk View Post
Imagine a professor of economics, with an IQ of 147, who's studied the economy and understands the problems we're in when it comes to national debt and all that. Now, imagine Jim Bob Mcgee, with an IQ of 98, who spends his free time watching Bass Masters, shooting at jack rabbits and driving his pickup truck while searching for a blood relative to sleep with. Well, guess what?...
Albert Einstein was a Marxist/socialist - so much for high IQ.
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Old 05-10-2011, 01:20 PM
 
Location: Staten Island, NY
6,476 posts, read 7,326,616 times
Reputation: 7026
Seems to me that a redneck's concerns are just as important as an economist's. If the lesser educated and less sophisticated peoples' votes didn't count every bit as much as those of the elites we'd soon have a government that caters to the whims only of the elites. A bootblack's concerns are every bit worthy of consideration as anyone else's. I wouldn't have it any other way.
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Old 05-10-2011, 01:43 PM
 
42,732 posts, read 29,894,256 times
Reputation: 14345
Quote:
Originally Posted by victorianpunk View Post
The EC did nothing to prevent the issues we're dealing with now.



Even before the age of mass corporations the people were, by and large, a dirty mob. Put any silver tongued politician in front of them and they'll listen.



Certainly qualified people should be in charge. That is not what's happening today. Today, the rednecks and ghetto slime pick the most charismatic person in the beauty pageant to be their leader. Would it be that bad a thing if we had EXPERTS making the important decisions, as opposed to the guy who won the favor of Bubba or Tyrone.
The idea that an economics professor with an IQ of 147 should have a vote with more weight than some chump with an IQ of 98 doesn't make sense. They are two different people. They live two different lives. The economics professor is going to vote according to his interests, according to the situation he lives in. If the economics professor lived the same lifestyle as the chump, for instance lived in rural America instead of urban America, his interests would be different, and he would, in all probability, vote differently.

I think that elitism is a problem in political discourse, because it prohibits empathy. Elitism is a way of distancing one's self. The chump with an IQ of 98 isn't stupid. What we measure with IQ tests isn't intelligence, or it's just one particular kind of intelligence. But human beings have many kinds of abilities that are not tested in traditional IQ tests. The economics professor is not a better person than the chump. And even if he were, that doesn't entitle him to make decisions about government policies that very well might have a negative impact on the chump's life. If government policy affects the chump, he deserves a say.

And we don't have a democracy. It's not the electoral college that means we don't have a democracy as much as it's the fact that we elect representatives, and those elections are contests. Which means that the representation we have is not proportional. This is amply illustrated by the recent re-districting that has been an issue because of the census results. When we re-district, the dominant party tries to re-district in such a way as to magnify its party control. Why? Because a state that's 43% Democrat and 57% Republican doesn't get represented in the national legislature by 43% Democrat representatives and 57% Republican representatives. The state could very easily get 100% Republican representatives, depending on how those voting districts are drawn. What makes our system more Democratic is how generous we are with voting qualifications. We encourage more people to vote, we qualify more people to vote. And we don't require people to vote. This can very much dilute partisan re-districting.
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