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Personally I think it's the other way around, but in this case I'd say it's probably more or less equal. I wouldn't be surprised, if we did a poll asking which is easier to pronounce--ask or ax--it'd be close to split down the middle.
The ask/ax thing is more of a sociocultural thing. Library/libary etc. are cases of reduced consonant clusters (simplifying pronunciation), which is common across languages and across dialects. For example, if you listen closely, you'll hear English speakers from all regions of the country and all social circles reduce words like February to Febuary.
Library/libary does cut across social circles, ethnic groups, regions.
In my experience, ax for ask is limited to the black community.
I'm still not clear--- is it a choice to say ax rather than ask.
Probably my imagination, but I don't remember that particular phonetic difference years ago.
These are not inconsequential deviations. People who speak ebonics without the ability to code-switch WILL not succeed in life the same way blacks capable of code switching will. And I call BS on your SLP comment. There's no reason why this can't be done by the classroom teachers. Mispronunciations as seen in the black community are not a phonological disorder as you claim. It's an articulation deviation which, when pointed out to the student and repeatedly corrected, can be overcome. No need for SLP's unless there are true phonologic or articulation disorders.
It can't be done in the classroom because when this happens the black parents will complain to the school that the teacher is picking on their kid because he / she is black. Then the teacher will get fired which will lead to union fights about why someone got fired for doing their job.
Then what is the point of kids learning English in school?
If language allows for any word to be mispronounced - oops, I mean "willfully spoken in an alternative but equally legitimate manner" - then why are we wasting these kids time?
Let's just show them a word and tell them, "go ahead and make up your own pronunciation".
Just because a white person with a Southern accent is mispronouncing words and phrases like "you all" doesn't make it right either.
Perhaps we can start a thread about "white ebonics". Then all of the white people can feel victimized about that criticism too.
To go along with the campaign against Ebonics, I propose a campaign to re-educate white Cajuns in Louisiana on the proper way to pronounce... well, everything
Look, ask -> aks (ax) is such a basic and common form of change in language it is ridiculous to call it ignorance. It is the result of a pattern of phonological change called metathesis which words you use everyday have gone through.
If it weren't for metathesis, you would still be saying things like:
BRID instead of BIRD
HROS instead of HORSE
WAPS instead of WASP
The list goes on and on. It is even stuck halfway in forms of words. For example we say THREE, but when we add ten we say THIR-TEEN.
That doesn't mean I think classes should be taught in a non-standard dialect, but to accuse people of being lazy and ignorant (and other sub-texts I won't mention) is just plain... ignorant.
There's no so such thing as phonetically "correct". Well there is, but there are multiple "correct" ways which kind of undermines the whole idea that there's one "right way", so I guess in the end there really is no "correct"!
What do you mean, there's no such thing? How can you even say that? Some things have several acceptable pronunciations, even per the dictionary, but butchering a word such as "ask," where there truly is no other way to say it (I suppose you could say "aysk" with a long A sound)...there's just really no excuse for it, aside from ignorance, laziness or just wanting to "be cool" and sound like your idiotic friends.
Quote:
Originally Posted by yayoi
Most people mispronounce words. When is the last time you heard someone pronounce the h in "what" or "where"?
Yup, people do mispronounce words. Again, how else is there to pronounce "ask"? I cringe when I hear the silent H in your example also.
What do you mean, there's no such thing? How can you even say that? Some things have several acceptable pronunciations, even per the dictionary, but butchering a word such as "ask," where there truly is no other way to say it (I suppose you could say "aysk" with a long A sound)...there's just really no excuse for it, aside from ignorance, laziness or just wanting to "be cool" and sound like your idiotic friends.
Yup, people do mispronounce words. Again, how else is there to pronounce "ask"? I cringe when I hear the silent H in your example also.
Just can't let it go, huh? It's "wrong" and must be stamped out. Well good luck with that.
Look, ask -> aks (ax) is such a basic and common form of change in language it is ridiculous to call it ignorance. It is the result of a pattern of phonological change called metathesis which words you use everyday have gone through.
If it weren't for metathesis, you would still be saying things like:
BRID instead of BIRD
HROS instead of HORSE
WAPS instead of WASP
The list goes on and on. It is even stuck halfway in forms of words. For example we say THREE, but when we add ten we say THIR-TEEN.
That doesn't mean I think classes should be taught in a non-standard dialect, but to accuse people of being lazy and ignorant (and other sub-texts I won't mention) is just plain... ignorant.
What the heck? It IS ignorant to do this. Nobody else says the examples you gave, unless they are dyslexic and seven years old (i.e., still learning the English language). There's nothing basic about switching "ask" into "ax." If you want to jump on the bandwagon that blacks who say "ax" all have phonological disorders, I suggest you read back through this thread and see why that's not a valid argument.
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Nobody else says the examples you gave, unless they are dyslexic and seven years old (i.e., still learning the English language). There's nothing basic about switching "ask" into "ax." If you want to jump on the bandwagon that blacks who say "ax" all have phonological disorders, I suggest you read back through this thread and see why that's not a valid argument.