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How does anyone get 'Wenz-day' out of this mess: Wednesday?
When you look at these examples side by side, you see that many words that are a bit of an effort to roll off the tongue often get simplified for easy pronunciation.
February becomes Febuary
Library becomes Libary
Wednesday becomes Wenzday Frustrated becomes Fustrated
Some less obvious examples: New becomes noo Huge becomes euge Where're often becomes where's (as in, "where's the keys?") even though the verb doesn't accord because where's is a lot easier to say than where're.
Many of those have a bunch of R's that are kind of hard to get in all at once in rapid speech. Other languages do it all the time. In Farsi:
Mitavanam becomes mitoonam
Hendavaneh becomes hendooneh
Midoonad becomes midooneh
Miravam becomes miram
Man hastam becomes manam
Koja hasti becomes Kojayi
Najmeh and Sojdeh become Nazhmeh and Sozhdeh (where zh is like the si in vision)
Barai inkeh becomes barinkeh
These phonetic "shortcuts" are so commonplace in speech in Farsi that you sound completely weird pronouncing the words the way they are actually written. People would look at you as an erudite elitist if you pronounced them the way they are written. Even news forecasters would sound weird pronouncing them the way they are written.
These words have been reduced in pronunciation overtime because of rapid speech, and that largely what is happening in English with words like February that are a lot of effort to pronounce 100% correctly in rapid, casual speech. The general trend in languages is towards what is more easily spoken, even when the original is still speakable. That's why many languages evolve to have irregular verb conjugations for common verbs--because they have evolved away from their regular verb conjugations into forms that roll off the tongue more easily in rapid speech.
This evolution is easily observable across languages because it's human nature to gravitate towards preservation of effort and convenience.
Don't edit my posts and then try to pass them off as mine.
My mistake. I inadvertently left the extra 'I' in your post when I deleted part of it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nimchimpsky
When you look at these examples side by side, you see that many words that are a bit of an effort to roll off the tongue often get simplified for easy pronunciation.
Thats right! among friends people can speak however they choose but in certain settings proper english/pronunciation is warranted! Like in job searches!
I was taught English diction in school during the 1950s and 1960s. When I learned a foreign language, I was also taught the proper diction for that language. If proper diction is not taught, then we only have what we hear to educate us on how to speak to be understood. This is true for any language, not just English.
In Germany, for example, everyone on the radio or TV speaks a formal Hochdeutsch or "High German", but on the streets they speak a "softer" form of German, particularly in Bavaria. On TV they will pronounce "zwanzig" (the number 20) with a hard "ig" sound, like in "pig", but in the streets of southern Germany everyone pronounces the same word as "zwanzish."
We seem to no longer care about formal and casual situations any longer, were we would alter our speech accordingly. Using one manner of speech with friends and co-workers, and another form of speech in formal settings, like interviews, meetings, or addressing large groups of people with diverse backgrounds. Anyone who does any form of public speaking should come to understand the value of proper diction very quickly.
I was taught English diction in school during the 1950s and 1960s. When I learned a foreign language, I was also taught the proper diction for that language. If proper diction is not taught, then we only have what we hear to educate us on how to speak to be understood. This is true for any language, not just English.
In Germany, for example, everyone on the radio or TV speaks a formal Hochdeutsch or "High German", but on the streets they speak a "softer" form of German, particularly in Bavaria. On TV they will pronounce "zwanzig" (the number 20) with a hard "ig" sound, like in "pig", but in the streets of southern Germany everyone pronounces the same word as "zwanzish."
We seem to no longer care about formal and casual situations any longer, were we would alter our speech accordingly. Using one manner of speech with friends and co-workers, and another form of speech in formal settings, like interviews, meetings, or addressing large groups of people with diverse backgrounds. Anyone who does any form of public speaking should come to understand the value of proper diction very quickly.
The Gov just wants us to be heathens and so they are starting with the weakest/most easily controlled first.
What is stopping you from starting a thread about "bro-speak"?
What is stopping you from starting a thread about the poor English of white middle-class fraternity boys?
I simply mentioned that particular thing is somehow not newsworthy. That somehow the public isn't interested. The main reason is because we typically do not associate White middle class with poor English skills (just as we don't associate that particular demographic with a whole host of social problems). Generally, our nation is more likely to push the social problems of minorities and create than Whites.
It's odd that my aunt's pronunciation of Washington (Warshington) is seen as a part of Americana (annoying, but is still seen as a piece of Mid Western roots), but ax instead of ask is not. Shouldn't the two draw the same amount of ire (none)?
Pronouncing "ask" as "axe" was a characteristic of an old form of cockney dialect (according to Peter Ackroyd's "London: The Biography") and African-Americans in the slavery era would have picked that up from whites who spoke that dialect. That pronunciation would disappear in England in about 1800 but managed to survive in the US.
I'm glad someone mentioned this, linguists believe the AA dialect was picked up not so much from Africa but poor whites. This makes sense since these groups often worked side by side and married each other quite frequently during the earliest days of the country before racial lines hardened.
It's not a phonological error...it's ignorant and they get it from their friends b/c they think it's cool.
Code switching...when I sit and listen to a black person speak for any length of time and he is speaking proper English, then I hear "ax" come out, that is not a code switching problem, nor is it a phonological error. It's ignorance. Anyone with even a high school education should know how to pronounce "ask." It's three letters, one syllable. Seriously.
I'm soooo sick of every time there is something negative pointed out about the black population, everyone who agrees or understands is automatically anti-black, racist, bigoted, etc.
Its more ignorant to not judge the person by the context, but rather on small glitches like "ax" vs. "ask".
I would NOT equate teaching proper English with being a hero--in any context. I am NOT a hero, but I have rigorously enforced speaking and writing STANDARD English in schools.
Among MANY RACES (even White) and many age groups, I have encountered mispronunciations, regional dialects, slang terms, and just plain bad grammar.
My students were told, "Irregardless of how you speak at home, with friends, or in other classrooms, it is my job to teach you to use proper English. In my classroom I will do my job as a teacher and I will expect you to do your job as students." I explained to them that it might take a while to learn new grammar skills, but that it would be very beneficial in class, on tests, in college, in business, and in many areas of life.
Once, we had a "brainstorming session" in which the students came up with many reasons that a person might use bad grammar and many potential problems that could result. They were very insightful and all students wanted to improve. One student said, "Someone might think that I sound dumb just because I don't speak properly. Then, they won't hire me." She summed it up very well for an 8th grader.
It is HORRIBLE when teachers model poor English skills because the students assume that it is correct. When they don't correct bad grammar, they are making the same mistake. It is NOT an option--it's a responsibility.
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Teachers have a responsibility to teach.
I am NOT a hero, but I have rigorously enforced speaking and writing STANDARD English in schools. 
I explained to them that it might take a while to learn new grammar skills, but that it would be very beneficial in class, on tests, in college, in business, and in many areas of life. 
They were very insightful and all students wanted to improve. One student said, "Someone might think that I sound dumb just because I don't speak properly. Then, they won't hire me." 
She summed it up very well for an 8th grader. 