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I did read the article.
Can you construct a sentence where it would not be obvious from the context of the conversation which is meant? I can't. I mean, no one just blurts out "Tony l***ves here," it's always embedded in some kind of exchange.
So you think elementary students, learning English, should be able to detect the correct word (which they may not know yet) from context ?
This is elementary school where you learn vocabulary, spelling and phonics. Lord help them on the phonics part.
But hey..that's AZ and that's how they want to run their schools.
In the case of my husband's then-wife, I've heard her speak and I have no problem understanding her. I can't believe that New Englanders are so insular that they would have had a hard time understanding her either.
Well, some businesses are picky and are looking for a specific thing, doesn't mean they made the right choice, but since they are paying the bills, its their choice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FrugalYankee
As far as hiring a DJ who is difficult to understand, I wouldn't do so, but there is a radio station not far from here ("The Point") with a DJ that I have a hard time understanding because of her thick Irish accent. They are wildly successful so obviously I'm in the minority with my opinion.
Sure, there are some gimmicks that some stations are after and such may work well within their goals, but it always depends on what they are looking for.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FrugalYankee
As far as these teachers go it did not sound like anyone was having trouble understanding them. The gripe was that they had accents. If English is the language spoken in the home, the kids are not going to pick up the teacher's accent.
Maybe not, but then the homes accents may not be much better. The whole point of an English teacher is to teach them the proper way and you can't do such when you can't achieve it yourself. Repetition through doing and "hearing" is important and it doesn't help when the one teaching is poorly enunciating.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FrugalYankee
Maybe I'm a bit sensitive but as a second generation American I grew up with accents and foreign languages all around me. I would hate to think that either one of my parents would have been denied a career because of their accents. How strong does the accent have to be? Can you quantify it? Does it reach a point where you disqualify someone merely because they have a faint accent? It sounds like a slippery slope to me.
This is a very specific thing, the accent is extremely relevant in this issue. It doesn't mean those with accents can't find jobs, it simply means that those with such thick accents and poor enunciation can't step in and teach the subject that requires proper enunciation. They may know a lot about structure of the language, but they are not fully qualified.
My father used to always use a poor enunciation for "washer", and it always came out "warsher", that would be an example of someone improperly enunciating, and they wouldn't be qualified for teaching the language as such, unless... this was their "casual" speak and they could enunciate properly as needed (appropriately while teaching), though this would likely not be an issue in an interview as you would expect they used such properly in the interview.
If their native language is English then yes they should have no trouble detemining whichis which from context.
If they are learning ESL (as this particular teacher was teaching) then perhaps not. However, if she is ESL, the fact that she also is fluent in Spanish is tremendous help. I don't see how you can realistically expect fluency with no accent in multiple languages from an elementary school teacher.
Please don't get me started on phonics. With roots in germanic and romance languages, the idea of using phonics to learn to read ranks only slightly above using new math to teach kids arithmetic as far as educational experiments go IMO.
Just an example of an immigrant who expects the United States to assimilate to her wishes.
Seems to me the spanish speaking population has gotten their wish.Dual labels in almost all products and services ,even schools and colleges .Before long spanish will be our national language one that our children will have to learn so they can assimilate into spanish dominated world .
If she can't be understood in English she has no business teaching it. A teaching job is not a civil right. TOEFL (Test of English as Second Language) contains a speaking section. Testing a student's spoken language fluency is hardly irrational or unfair.
A friend of mine flunked her science class because her teacher was from India, and she couldn't understand a word he said.
She took the course again and got a B on it.
Teachers (of any nationality) need to be able to be understood. Anything else is sheer stupidity.
The thread title is blatantly misleading and inflammatory.
It isn't a matter of the teachers not having mastered the English language, it's a matter of their accents. Good grief!
Funny this reminds me of a story my Dixie hubby told me about how his first wife, who is also a southerner, applied for a job as a DJ of a local country radio station in New Hampshire. She was turned down because she had a southern accent.
So does this mean that transplants from Jersey also can't teach in AZ? I mean they sometimes say "anuder" instead of "another" too y'know.
I thought the same about accents, in a hypothetical of a Mississippi English teacher getting a job at a Boston school. Should her job be threatened due to her accent?
Also agree that thread title is wrong. The teacher speaks English and isn't whining about being asked to.
So you think elementary students, learning English, should be able to detect the correct word (which they may not know yet)
Sure the kids will know or they'll learn because language is reinforced by others in the home, playmates, etc. Kids will just think "that's just how Mrs Soandso speaks". If they consistently hear a person pronounce words they know have a short 'i' in them as an 'ee' sound, they'll mentally make the correction. I know this from my own kids whose mom has heavily-accented English.
From what I think I know, the school system may be violating her rights. I say that because within the workplace an employer isn't supposed to discriminate based on nationality. If she is from another nation then she will have a different accent. I learned this when I was reading about Mexican workers in fast food restaurants and how people were offended by them only speaking Spanish. I believe I read that an employer can't demand that they speak English if they are still able to do their job.
I do think that this situation is unfortunate and that she shouldn't be scolded for her accent. They say further in the article that they are concerned with her fluency. If that is the case then yes they should be concerned with her, but if she is speaking English well (they hired her) then her accent shouldn't be an issue.
I also don't see where the teacher has been whining. So, I think the title is wrong and misleading.
Read the story. She was hired to teach in Spanish. Then AZ dropped Spanish speaking classes and went to all English.
They hired an accent reduction specialist to work with 10 teachers at that school that had heavy accents.
English is her second language. It's quite possible her accent is very heavy and mis-pronouncing words to elementary school kids isn't exactly the type of education you want..is it ?
I didn't see that in the article.
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