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"social engineering", "indoctrination", whatever..starts when the baby comes out. YOu can call it whatever scary word you want but it doesn't change a thing.
I'm not afraid of anything the schools are teaching and nobody else should be either. The problem with the USA is the best thing about the USA...people are free to be, even if it's ignorant and stupid.
If the worst thing is that nobody cared about anyone elses sexuality or thought anyone a perv or weirdo for doing something consulting adults do then I say bring it on.
Except when someone leaves a box of Bibles in the front office for the taking. Then the outrage starts and the ACLU gets involved because those schools "are teaching religion".
The intolerance displayed by both sides is sickening. Each side wants to force their way into the schools and ONLY their way.
When adopting instructional materials for use in the schools, governing boards shall include only instructional materials which, in their determination, accurately portray the cultural and racial diversity of our society, including:... The role and contributions of lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender Americans,...
Instruction in social sciences shall include the early history of California and a study of the role and contributions of ... lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender Americans, ... to the economic, political, and social development of California and the United States of America, with particular emphasis on portraying the role of these groups in contemporary society.
A governing board shall not adopt any instructional materials that contain: (b) Any sectarian or denominational doctrine or propaganda contrary to law. ----------------------------------
What is the 'role" of transgender Americans ? What is the 'role' of LGBT groups in contemporary society ? I believe, but am Not positive that the law applies to grades k-8. Will Students be taught that George Washington was [probably ?] heterosexual, or will the contribution of heterosexual Americans [like continuing the species] be ignored ? What's the answer if a 4th grader asks if Obama is bisexual ? Would beliefs that gay marriage is wrong be considered religious doctrine or propaganda [the use of the word 'propaganda' pretty much reveals where this whole bill is headed.]
There's more to the law, but you can start with those.
Oh for Pete's sake!! What do you think the answer should be if a 4th grader asks if Obama is bisexual? Yes, the belief that gay marriage is "wrong" IS religious doctrine. The "role" of LGBT groups in contemporary society is analogous to the "role" of unions in the early part of the 20th century and civil rights groups in the 50s. All they are seeking is equal treatment in society and under the law.
Perhaps what will happen is that literary lions such as Oscar Wilde and Gertrude Stein will be portrayed accurately. That the teaching of Nazi persecution won't leave out the pink triangle. And maybe, just maybe, the end result will be fewer teen suicides as society wakes up to ACCEPTING the differences that make us all human.
Last edited by Sanderling; 12-31-2011 at 06:22 AM..
Except when someone leaves a box of Bibles in the front office for the taking. Then the outrage starts and the ACLU gets involved because those schools "are teaching religion".
The intolerance displayed by both sides is sickening. Each side wants to force their way into the schools and ONLY their way.
Really?
Each "side" (as you're defining them here) is right about the other....and they both should be kept a safe distance from public schools.
Each "side" (as you're defining them here) is right about the other....and they both should be kept a safe distance from public schools.
I feel like students should be taught all the sides and left to make their own choices about what they believe. If you're teaching someone all the sides, that's not indoctrination. At least they get to be exposed to the different viewpoints and can decide what they believe and what they don't believe. Really, it's parents who want to indoctrinate their kids, by not even letting their kids hear another perspective. But how is that any better than teachers indoctrinating them in school?
Location: Just transplanted to FL from the N GA mountains
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smash255
You choose to instill values of hate and discrimination in your children and want them to hate and discriminate against those that are different than you are.
If that wasn't the case than you wouldn't have a problem with this particular bill, unless of course you decided to base your decision off what some other nutter said about the bill rather than read the bill itself.
This right here is the problem... You have no idea what values a person instills in their children by reading one post. Yet here goes with the condescending, I'm more tolerant than you crap. Neither side is tolerant. Go take a look at the thread about the NC school where a boy "took" (was not given!) a bible home. The same people who keep preaching tolerance and no hate were without a doubt the most hateful people on the thread. Both sides are hypocrites... The smoking thread... same way. Neither side willing to see that this all comes down to freedom.
Freedom to choose how we educate our own children. Freedom to run a business as we see fit. Freedom to either participate or not participate in religion. Each side has a point. Neither side is completely right. Would you both just shut the hell up! I tired of listening and being told from either side how I should feel, react, or do. Your opinions are not any of my business and I'm tired of you convincing the government to legislate my life...
Oh for Pete's sake!! What do you think the answer should be if a 4th grader asks if Obama is bisexual? Yes, the belief that gay marriage is "wrong" IS religious doctrine. The "role" of LGBT groups in contemporary society is analogous to the "role" of unions in the early part of the 20th century and civil rights groups in the 50s. All they are seeking is equal treatment in society and under the law.
Perhaps what will happen is that literary lions such as Oscar Wilde and Gertrude Stein will be portrayed accurately. That the teaching of Nazi persecution won't leave out the pink triangle. And maybe, just maybe, the end result will be fewer teen suicides as society wakes up to ACCEPTING the differences that make us all human.
OK, does that mean all people should be identified by sexual orientation ? Should there be a default--- anyone not identified as lgbt is heterosexual ?
It's your opinion that gay groups is the same as unions and civil rights groups. Probably the California curriculum writers will agree with you, but you must know many if not most citizens don't agree. The same with your view of gay marriage.
The answer to whether Obama or practically anyone else is of a bisexual orientation should be--- who knows ?
OK, does that mean all people should be identified by sexual orientation ? Should there be a default--- anyone not identified as lgbt is heterosexual ?
It's your opinion that gay groups is the same as unions and civil rights groups. Probably the California curriculum writers will agree with you, but you must know many if not most citizens don't agree. The same with your view of gay marriage.
The answer to whether Obama or practically anyone else is of a bisexual orientation should be--- who knows ?
OK, does that mean all people should be identified by sexual orientation ? Should there be a default--- anyone not identified as lgbt is heterosexual ?
Of course not. But if sexual orientation IS an important thing about a person, relevant to his or her work or public life in some way, it shouldn't be ignored or brushed aside because *gasp* some might be icked out.
Quote:
It's your opinion that gay groups is the same as unions and civil rights groups. Probably the California curriculum writers will agree with you, but you must know many if not most citizens don't agree. The same with your view of gay marriage.
You asked what the role is, and I explained that it is the same as that of any other group defending civil and human rights. People who don't "agree" about that historical fact are simply wrong--prejudiced or bigoted in exactly the same way that people who didn't "agree" with civil rights were (are). Are you defending that?
Quote:
The answer to whether Obama or practically anyone else is of a bisexual orientation should be--- who knows ?
Exactly. Why is this a problem? Why is the question so scary to you?
What's wrong with lumping everyone together under a civil rights category? When it's time to teach US history, then yes.. the ones who made a difference need to be mention. Martin Luther King and Harvey Milk. Other than that, how many other GLBT civil rights leaders existed? I mean, the kind that has made HUGE differences/accomplishments?
And yes, the handful of states that legalized same-sex marriage should be mentioned too, and DOTA.
This is like, a week long course. I don't see the big deal on either side.
This is like, a week long course. I don't see the big deal on either side.
One side is obsessed with their religion and anti-gay bigotry.
The other side is obsessed with political correctness and putting Christians in their place.
This is a perfect issue for both sides to capitalize on to distract them from real problems.
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