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Why should we believe you on that? Lay out your case, as you said all day yesterday like you were a social studies teacher or something. Do it! (Sarc)
Because it is not an issue of belief. You were already shown this before.
As for your reversal, you still haven't shown how the 24th amendment supports your claim. Now you are using a fallicous tactic to try and throw it on me so I can argue your point completely and then disprove it while you sit on your thumb doing nothing. Sorry, but support your position.
A state ID/DL is required for many aspects of commerce and general function within society. It is not directly related to voting, so it can not be considered a poll tax.
Its purpose is not to detour poor people from voting (as many poor people already have a DL or ID) and this is shown by the fact that the cost of a state ID is miniscule and most states have the option for those who need to obtain it for free.
The entire purpose of requiring a state ID to vote is to reduce voter fraud and insure peoples votes actually count as opposed to them being thrown away because of fraud voting tactics.
Again, please properly show how the 24th amendment applies to that of requiring someone to properly identify themselves with a state ID or DL in order to vote?
Last edited by gallowsCalibrator; 03-14-2012 at 09:16 AM..
Reason: Discuss topic, not poster
So tell me how this discriminates. Does it let white people vote without an ID and require others to show an ID? Or does it apply the law equally?
I'm not sure how it discriminates either. Everyone should have some form of state issued photo ID. How can you expect to do business in this day and age without one? How can you deal with a government agency without ID?
Who exactly does this discriminate against? You can't buy a beer w/o an ID I don't care if you just forgot it at home or the dog ate it or you just got a DUI and had your license taken away I will not serve you without an ID. Why should you be able to vote without one?
Because it is not an issue of belief. You were already shown this before.
As for your reversal, you still haven't shown how the 24th amendment supports your claim. Now you are using a fallicous tactic to try and throw it on me so I can argue your point completely and then disprove it while you sit on your thumb doing nothing. Sorry, but support your position.
A state ID/DL is required for many aspects of commerce and general function within society. It is not directly related to voting, so it can not be considered a poll tax.
Its purpose is not to detour poor people from voting (as many poor people already have a DL or ID) and this is shown by the fact that the cost of a state ID is miniscule and most states have the option for those who need to obtain it for free.
The entire purpose of requiring a state ID to vote is to reduce voter fraud and insure peoples votes actually count as opposed to them being thrown away because of fraud voting tactics.
Again, please properly show how the 24th amendment applies to that of requiring someone to properly identify themselves with a state ID or DL in order to vote?
There is NO option for me to obtain it for free.
On various occasions I have used expired state ID, and have never had a problem when presenting expired state ID in commerce and general function.
But somehow I'm SURE that expired state ID will get me turned away from the polls.
In North Carolina to get a photo ID one has to prove they are a citizen and resident of our state. We have to present our Social Security Number to get a drivers' license so I am sure the same is necessary to get a photo ID. I would think that in order to vote that one should present their voter registration card, but they never ask me for it.
Maybe they are concerned that to present a voter ID card or a photo ID card would cut down on dead people voting or stop the practice of voting in more than one state on election day. I have been told that a lot of people fly from the North to Florida on election day. In North Carolina we make it even easier to vote in more than one place by allowing early voting.
I say one vote per each live person and let that person furnish proof that they are who they say they are and are a citizen of the state and country where they vote.
Usually you need an official copy of your birth certificate to get a state ID.
Every citizen has an unimpeded right to vote. Many elderly do not have current state issued ID because they do not need them. My mother, for example, had Parkinson's. When she quit driving she did not renew her driver's licence because she didn't use it. After a couple years the address on her old licence was not correct, however, at each move she notified the post office and the elections office, and she received her mail at her place of residence. She didn't need it for check cashing purposes because her bills were either paid electronically or I signed her checks.
It would have taken a special handicapped transport to take her to DMB to obtain a current state issued ID and would have been very exhausting for her and the family.
She had a clear, sound mind. Why should she be denied the right to vote because she didn't have the ID mandated by some legislatures? Oh, if it makes any difference she was a committed Republican.
In my state the issuance of a death certificate removes you from the voter's roles. Votes by mail are not forwarded and the post office returns those addressed to the deceased if elections failed to remove the voter from the roles, BTW.
These 'voter ID laws' are designed to suppress the vote and deny that right to many.
Right on Nells. Here is what I wrote in another thread:
I guess I have a different take on this voter ID issue.
The Libertarian in me argues thusly:
1. The Right to Vote is perhaps our greatest right as a citizen.
2. I believe that the presumption should always be that a person showing up to vote is a citizen fully entitled to vote.
Why should a person committing a felony or other crime be entitled to a 'presumption of innocence' while a voter is not given the same presumption?
3. Any person who wishes to vote is allowed to vote, no ID required.
4. If the person in charge of the voting place has reasonable cause to suspect that a person is not entitled to vote (due to age, nationality, felony conviction, has already voted, etc), then said official will:
a. Inform the voter of his or her basis for believing the person is not entitled to vote;
b. allow the voter to immediately show that he or she is in fact entitled to vote; if said voter cannot immediately show the required proof, then:
c. The voter is still allowed to vote, but said vote is held in abeyance while the voter obtains evidence showing that said voter is, in fact, eligible. I believe that 24 hours is reasonable. If, at the expiration of that time, the voter has not come back with proof of eligibility, then the vote is not counted.
As you can see, I do allow the voting official some power to hold a person's vote in abeyance. However, the official must be able to articulate why he or she believes the person standing in front of them is not eligible to vote. Simply saying "You look Mexican" will not suffice. Again, the presumption is that a person wishing to cast a ballot is, indeed, entitled to do so.
If the above system were in place, then the 89-year old WWII veteran we all read about would have been allowed to vote. The voting official would probably had not had a 'reasonable cause' to suspect said veteran was not eligible to vote.
I think that those who are advocating that 'the government' create rules that people must meet in order to prove that they are 'entitled' to vote are going down a dangerous path. It is creating the presumption that the people who show up to vote are not eligible voters, which is, to me, a dangerous presumption to give the Government.
So getting a FREE ID using FREE transportation to prove who you are to vote is considered a poll tax ?
Where is the money being collected here ?
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