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I don't even need to read the rest of your post beyond the bold (and I just skimmed the rest of it). GZ set this thing up by deciding that TM looked suspicious, and by following him.
The problem is, thinking someone looks suspicious and keeping an eye on them is not a crime. The police are constantly on the lookout for "suspicious people" all the time. If you disregard the concept of "police powers" which supposedly gives the police the right to keep an eye on suspicious characters but supposedly doesn't give citizens the right to keep an eye on suspicious characters. Then what if a cop follows or stops a person he believes is behaving suspiciously, and the guy he follows or stops, then gets angry and ends up attacking the cop? What happens? How about if an off-duty policeman starts following you then basically stops you to ask you what you are doing in some area, but doesn't state that he is a policeman? And then the guy he was following gets angry that he was following him, and attacks the off-duty policeman, and then gets shot? Who is at fault?
The truth is, whether or not Zimmerman followed someone through an area that he had the right to be in, and which he had an intention to protect his neighborhood, really doesn't matter. He committed no crime.
What you and others are effectively stating is that, Zimmerman's actions pissed Martin off, so Martin attacked Zimmerman. But that if Zimmerman hadn't been doing things that would **** Martin off, then Martin never would have attacked Zimmerman, and therefore Martin would still be alive. So therefore it is Zimmerman's fault.
The problem is, Martin had a choice. He could have just went home at any time. Zimmerman even lost sight of Martin for quite some time, and he still didn't go home. The girl on the phone told Martin to just run home, and he refused to run home. It is pretty evident that Martin was looking for a confrontation with Zimmerman, and according to the girl on the phone, he started the confrontation with Zimmerman by asking him why he was following him. The problem is, Martin left 7-11 at around 6:24, he didn't get shot till about 7:16. That is nearly an hour to go the distance it should have taken him 15 minutes to walk.
To pretend that the entire confrontation was set in motion by Zimmerman, and that Martin in no way played any part, is foolish.
The situation is basically like this. Both Martin and Zimmerman were out making bad decisions, but doing nothing necessarily illegal. Then someone made the biggest stupid decision, and started throwing punches.
All the way up to that point, you had two stupid people who had committed no crime. But then at that moment, a crime was committed, someone resorted to physical violence. And from what most of the evidence shows, that person who first committed a crime by employing violence, ended up dead.
We can talk about how easily the situation could have been avoided. Yes, if Zimmerman hadn't thought Martin was suspicious to begin with, Martin would still be alive. Had Martin not been dressed like a thug, with a hoodie and baggy jeans, most likely under the influence of marijuana(they found THC in his system, and he looks like he might be a little high in the 7-11 video), then Zimmerman probably wouldn't have thought Martin was suspicious. If Zimmerman had just not followed Martin, Martin would be alive. But if Martin would have just told Zimmerman he lived there when Zimmerman asked him why he was there, Martin would be alive. If Martin hadn't assaulted Zimmerman, Martin would be alive.
Bad judgement is not a crime. If it was, we would all be in prison. The problem is, people are angry at Zimmerman and they can't think of anything else to solve their anger than to lock Zimmerman up in prison. They could really care less if he committed a crime or not, they feel like he needs some kind of consequences to his poor judgement, and they could care less if he actually broke any laws. But that is simply not how the legal system works.
Remember that girl Casey Anthony, who was charged with murdering her daughter, but got off? Well, if you read about that case, then whether or not she actually killed her daughter or not didn't really matter to a lot of people, because she was the epitome of making stupid decisions. Her daughter was gone for something like a month, and she never even called the police. Many people are upset about that court case, because she certainly seemed like she deserved to be locked up. And that case also happened in Florida.
My point is, being stupid is not a crime. Assaulting someone is.
I know everyone is upset at Zimmerman. But I simply do not believe that Zimmerman is guilty of any actual crime. And this case is really a waste of peoples times. And whatever people intended to achieve in this case, will end up in failure. This case is bringing the racists out, not silencing them. This case is dividing us, not uniting us. This case is creating hatred, not eliminating it. And it is certainly making evident the racial fault lines that run through this country, and forever handicap us.
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Nor was Trayvon doing anything illegal. Zimmerman had been calling the cops weekly the last month before he shot Trayvon, reporting "suspicious" people. He was carrying a gun with him on a trip supposedly to Target. He was coming unglued.
Carrying a gun on a trip to Target? Is that something only crazy people do? I know tons of people who have concealed carry permits, most of them carry their gun practically everywhere they go. They get pissed off because there are places they can't take their gun into. My friend complains all the time about how you can't take a gun into a bank. He says it is sheer stupidity. If someone wants to rob a bank with a gun, a sign on a door that says no guns isn't going to stop them. To pretend that signs on doors that say "no guns allowed" protects you from criminals, is delusional.
I mean, where is it exactly that normal people with concealed carry permits take their guns?
Last edited by Redshadowz; 05-22-2012 at 09:45 PM..
Well, the hosts of GMA are not lawyers, IIRC. I don't see how Trayvon belonging to a fight club matter any more than if he had been a member of the Boy Scouts.
Exactly. However, apparently some posters on this forum believe they're a lot smarter than Zimmerman's attorney. Even Fox hasn't reported this as factual. As you said, why does it matter? Has anyone here ever watched a boxing match? I saw the video and, although there's absolutely no proof that it's Trayvon Martin, it wasn't the least bit violent. In fact, the person they're saying is Trayvon (the taller teenager) isn't even fighting. It's just some friends fooling around. Spectators at a soccer match are louder and a lot more destructive. Anyway, I can't even see the face of the person they claim is Trayvon. Is he the only Trayvon in the country? It's also not a "fight club" but some kids goofing off. If he was a member of the wrestling team, would that make him a thug? This smear campaign to attack the victim has really gotten ugly.
I just looked at some of the sites that are spreading this rumor. "American Power" was on the top of the list when I Googled it.
I went back to look at the video and the person who is being called Trayvon is actually trying to break up the fight. The White guy is the one who is being aggressive and trying to keep it going, but nobody is even injured or bleeding. They're just goofing off. Where are the punches or bloody noses? "Fight Club?" How ridiculous.
No but you keep saying that he had a broken nose and the only other person that said that was Zimmerman. Interesting!
What? His doctor said he had a broken nose.
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A medical report by George Zimmerman's doctor has disclosed that Zimmerman had a fractured nose, two black eyes, two lacerations on the back of his head and a back injury on the day after the fatal shooting.
Moreover, the New York Times has reported that traces of marijuana were found in Trayvon Martin's body and that Martin's father initially said that the voice crying for help was not that of his son.
And Katiana, trying to equate a fight club with the Boy Scouts? Seriously? My son is in the scouts. They don't beat up old ladies, they help them across the street.
Yes, his doctor stated that he had a broken nose. Did he receive treatment for these "injuries"? Where are the xrays, etc? Besides the "report" from his family friend oops I mean "family doctor" (wink wink) where is the evidence of actually being treated for these life threatening injuries? How many sutures did these life threatening injuries require?
And Katiana, trying to equate a fight club with the Boy Scouts? Seriously? My son is in the scouts. They don't beat up old ladies, they help them across the street.
What does a fight club do? Is that like a boxing club, or a Karate club? I fail to see the difference.
And SO WHAT if he belonged to a "fight club"? GZ didn't know that when he called the cops. GZ thought he looked "suspicious".
Exactly. However, apparently some posters on this forum believe they're a lot smarter than Zimmerman's attorney. Even Fox hasn't reported this as factual. As you said, why does it matter? Has anyone here ever watched a boxing match? I saw the video and, although there's absolutely no proof that it's Trayvon Martin, it wasn't the least bit violent. In fact, the person they're saying is Trayvon (the taller teenager) isn't even fighting. It's just some friends fooling around. Spectators at a soccer match are louder and a lot more destructive. Anyway, I can't even see the face of the person they claim is Trayvon. Is he the only Trayvon in the country? It's also not a "fight club" but some kids goofing off. If he was a member of the wrestling team, would that make him a thug? This smear campaign to attack the victim has really gotten ugly.
I just looked at some of the sites that are spreading this rumor. "American Power" was on the top of the list when I Googled it.
It came from Trayvon's youtube page. They have removed the video, but the family has never contested that the youtube account was his. So are you saying that the real Trayvon found a video of another Trayvon in a fight club adn uploaded it to his account?
This info has been out there for a couple of months, it's just getting more traction now.
Here's the screen shot of his youtube account before this video was removed:
I don't even need to read the rest of your post beyond the bold (and I just skimmed the rest of it). GZ set this thing up by deciding that TM looked suspicious, and by following him.
Nor was Trayvon doing anything illegal. Zimmerman had been calling the cops weekly the last month before he shot Trayvon, reporting "suspicious" people. He was carrying a gun with him on a trip supposedly to Target. He was coming unglued.
Without getting into everything bantered about. Ok. So? He was carrying a gun with him to Target. Can you predict when, where, why, and how you are going to be attacked?
I carry two guns with me, and a rifle in my car, when I go to 7-11. Does that mean I'm coming unglued too?
What you and others are effectively stating is that, Zimmerman's actions pissed Martin off, so Martin attacked Zimmerman. But that if Zimmerman hadn't been doing things that would **** Martin off, then Martin never would have attacked Zimmerman, and therefore Martin would still be alive. So therefore it is Zimmerman's fault.
The problem is, Martin had a choice. He could have just went home at any time. Zimmerman even lost sight of Martin for quite some time, and he still didn't go home. The girl on the phone told Martin to just run home, and he refused to run home. It is pretty evident that Martin was looking for a confrontation with Zimmerman, and according to the girl on the phone started the confrontation with Zimmerman by asking him why he was following him. The problem is, Martin left 7-11 at around 6:24, he didn't get shot till about 7:16. That is nearly an hour to go the distance it should have taken him 15 minutes to walk.
That is not what I am saying. I AM saying that Zimmerman initiated this incident HE called the police to report Trayvon as "suspicious". He admitted following Trayvon. Beyond that, we don't know what happened, exactly.
Zimmerman had a choice, too. He could have waited until the police arrived. But he did not. He shot Trayvon before the police got there, which was only several minutes after he called.
How long it took Martin to walk home from the 7-11 is irrelevant.
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