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Old 05-01-2012, 01:05 AM
 
16,431 posts, read 22,193,454 times
Reputation: 9623

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Let's have a flat 15% sales tax and eliminate income tax entirely. That's the only way to successfully tax the rich; tax consumption.

 
Old 05-01-2012, 02:51 AM
 
867 posts, read 498,185 times
Reputation: 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bideshi View Post
Let's have a flat 15% sales tax and eliminate income tax entirely. That's the only way to successfully tax the rich; tax consumption.
More cobwebs in need of clearing out. A sales tax is highly Regressive inasmuch as poor peoplel spend virtually all of their income (and it would, therefore, be subject to taxation), while their betters spend only a small fraction of their income, and invest the vast majority (which would be out of the reach of the tax).

Glad to help.
 
Old 05-01-2012, 07:04 AM
 
33,016 posts, read 27,449,790 times
Reputation: 9074
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beatles4evr View Post
Simple logic. A pack horse works hard for its hay, but this world doesn't reward muscle work so much as brain work, and skill. If you don't position yourself and your skill set to take advantage of the available markets, well shame on you. If you insist on selling buggy whips instead of radial tires, well, who are you to blame for your failure.

It is not the governments job to take from Peter to give to Paul. It is the government's job to take some from Peter and some from Paul to build a road both Peter and Paul can drive on.

Hope that helps clear some of your cobwebs.

I've explained - heck Sowell explained it far better than I ever could - that government already takes from Peter and redistributes it to Paul.

You seem to have no problem with this, but you object to giving something back to Peter.

And there is a lot to be said for capital trumping labor and performance in markets.

Budweiser and Bud Light might be best-selling (and thus most successful) beers but they are mediocre products at best. Their advantage comes not from quality but from the marketing muscle afforded by big bucks.

Betamax was technologically superior to VHS but lost the marketing battle.

I buy and sell in a niche collectible. I started on a shoestring and even today can't yet afford a website. By necessity I have to do everything the hard way.

And I see the big fish (in this small pond) making six figures on one deal. They find a big collection (usually a retiree or estate), drive 1000 miles to view and buy it, and live for two years on the sales revenue (it can take years to retail the entirety of a large collection).

The thing that surprised me is that most of these people have less knowledge and exert less effort than I do. While they might be (for now) more successful than I, it's really hard for me to consider them my betters.
 
Old 05-01-2012, 07:06 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,479 posts, read 59,768,722 times
Reputation: 24863
OP - Same way it is "FAIR" that 5% make 80% of the profit.
 
Old 05-01-2012, 09:07 AM
 
867 posts, read 498,185 times
Reputation: 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
OP - Same way it is "FAIR" that 5% make 80% of the profit.
No connection whatsoever. Earning and shirking responsibility are polar opposities.
 
Old 05-01-2012, 09:15 AM
 
867 posts, read 498,185 times
Reputation: 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by freemkt View Post
I've explained - heck Sowell explained it far better than I ever could - that government already takes from Peter and redistributes it to Paul.

You seem to have no problem with this, but you object to giving something back to Peter.

And there is a lot to be said for capital trumping labor and performance in markets.

Budweiser and Bud Light might be best-selling (and thus most successful) beers but they are mediocre products at best. Their advantage comes not from quality but from the marketing muscle afforded by big bucks.

Betamax was technologically superior to VHS but lost the marketing battle.

I buy and sell in a niche collectible. I started on a shoestring and even today can't yet afford a website. By necessity I have to do everything the hard way.

And I see the big fish (in this small pond) making six figures on one deal. They find a big collection (usually a retiree or estate), drive 1000 miles to view and buy it, and live for two years on the sales revenue (it can take years to retail the entirety of a large collection).

The thing that surprised me is that most of these people have less knowledge and exert less effort than I do. While they might be (for now) more successful than I, it's really hard for me to consider them my betters.
I am perfectly aware of government malfeasance via engaging in redistribution of the fruits of someone elses labors. It shouldn't exist, for it is theft. Leave that sort of stuff to Robin Hood, not Uncle Sam.

They are working smarter than you, not necessarily harder. If you were truly more knowledgeable, you would advance.

If you can't afford a website, you have absolutely no business whatsoever, squandering your time here, IMHO. It costs virtually nothing to reserve a domain on go-daddy, and using an inexpensive shopping cart is a matter of a buck or two a day.

Borrow the slogan and Just Do It.
 
Old 05-01-2012, 09:32 AM
 
17,400 posts, read 11,971,106 times
Reputation: 16152
Quote:
Originally Posted by freemkt View Post
I've explained - heck Sowell explained it far better than I ever could - that government already takes from Peter and redistributes it to Paul.

You seem to have no problem with this, but you object to giving something back to Peter.

And there is a lot to be said for capital trumping labor and performance in markets.

Budweiser and Bud Light might be best-selling (and thus most successful) beers but they are mediocre products at best. Their advantage comes not from quality but from the marketing muscle afforded by big bucks.

Betamax was technologically superior to VHS but lost the marketing battle.

I buy and sell in a niche collectible. I started on a shoestring and even today can't yet afford a website. By necessity I have to do everything the hard way.

And I see the big fish (in this small pond) making six figures on one deal. They find a big collection (usually a retiree or estate), drive 1000 miles to view and buy it, and live for two years on the sales revenue (it can take years to retail the entirety of a large collection).

The thing that surprised me is that most of these people have less knowledge and exert less effort than I do. While they might be (for now) more successful than I, it's really hard for me to consider them my betters.
They're smart enough to have their own website. Just sayin'. And naturally you consider yourself better than them - you are a legend in your own mind, apparently.
 
Old 05-01-2012, 09:40 AM
 
3,852 posts, read 4,518,716 times
Reputation: 4516
What is the endgame of raising taxes on the poor? I keep hearing this 'skin in the game' line but what do you think that will really accomplish? Some dirt poor person barely making rent is going to change their habits because they have to fork over a few hundred or thousand a year? What habits do you think they need to change? Not everyone is CEO material, there will always be a need for menial labor. Why punish these people more just because you want the already rich to keep their money?
 
Old 05-01-2012, 09:45 AM
 
154 posts, read 524,623 times
Reputation: 184
Freemkt,

Where are you going with this?

You may have more knowledge about widgets in your obscure niche market then they do but they likely have more business sense if they are making significantly higher profits than you. Also its hard to estimate just how much someone works - if they are successful, they are likely working very hard. There's no substitute for working hard.

That said, generically speaking, it often takes the same amount of effort to earn 50 cents than it takes to earn 5 dollars. Do you penalize the people who earn 5 dollars? The people who earn 50 cents really aren't victims although many people would likely think of them and themselves that way. If I was earning 50 cents, I would work pretty hard to figure out just exactly what I am doing differently and change my approach so that one day I would earn 5 bucks. And I surely would not want my 5 bucks taxed more heavily than someone who only could make 50 cents.

To Interlude: I think the end game is to reform taxes because our Federal Government is insolvent. Its not just the poor, there are many wealthy people who pay an effective tax rate of less than 15 percent. Also the number of people on SSDI, UE, and Welfare are at an all time high.
 
Old 05-01-2012, 09:47 AM
 
Location: Hinckley Ohio
6,721 posts, read 5,200,760 times
Reputation: 1378
Quote:
Originally Posted by ringwise View Post
They're smart enough to have their own website. Just sayin'. And naturally you consider yourself better than them - you are a legend in your own mind, apparently.
Yep, there are only a couple of things keeping EVERYONE from being a successful business owner.

OPPORTUNITY, TIMING, SUPERIOR INTELLIGENCE, LUCK, BUSINESS SENSE, AND START UP CAPITAL....

unfortunately, not everyone has all of those ingredients in the exact right proportions. My sister was born with cerebral palsy and no sense of balance, I suppose it is her fault she isn't able to create a job for herself. FYI, even if she had all of the other ingredients and tools at her disposal her functional limitations keep her from succeeding without help.

Few people succeed at creating and succeeding at a business, freemarket has done something few people do, you ridiculing them for putting effort into, FOR TRYING, a start up that was short on some or all of the above ingredients is extremely lame.
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