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They're not "loose" lines; they're quite specific. But the real problem is delineated in the last sentence of your posting.
Christians, as I understand the species, want everyone to be "saved." Although that's actually shorthand for "Saved according to our belief system." So that anytime someone, let alone a government, proposes to do something that doesn't fit within the parameters of their belief system, they're all up in arms about it.
That is the one area in which they're completely consistent. You must follow the dictates of their belief system...or you risk being labeled as a "non-believer." And, of course, you aren't supposed to want that to happen.
To be fair, Christians are called to teach the word of God and win souls for Christ, if you will. This does not (and should not) mean browbeating and/or lecturing anyone. It simply means that if an opportunity presents itself to speak with someone about the word of God, then you should. If that person does not want to hear the message, you should discontinue with your attempts.
BTW, if you don't believe in God/Jesus Christ, wouldn't that accurately define you as a non-believer?
It doesn't have to make sense to you. You have a problem with my SBE stance...that doesn't make sense to me either. But guess what? We don't have to agree with one another.
Your parent's marriage does not change the foundation for what the Bible considers marriage. While you may not agree with it, it really isn't that hard to understand on an intellectual level.
Here's the problem: Your "understanding" and "definition" of marriage is personal to you. Nobody is asking religious people to ever PERSONALLY accept gay marriage within the confines of their religious beliefs (be they truly "scripture based" or not).
Some people won't ever respect an interracial marriage, or plural marriage, or any combination that they don't personally agree with for whatever reason. Some people don't accept marriage that isn't in a church... or interfaith marriage. But that's OK. The GOVERNMENT definition of marriage, however, should not consider what the dominant religion thinks is "the best" way.
I'm sorry. I thought we were having an intelligent discussion. My mistake...carry on.
But that's the point.
Your version of the Bible may just be YOUR particular religious branch's interpretation of the same book that OTHER branches of the SAME religion have different definitions for.
What whacked out world do you inhabit, and how do we close the portal to keep others out?
Just making a point and being extreme to get it across.. The point is that Christians do not want to be oppressed- and they will be and are oppressed by liberal elite...as for the portal...don't worry- I was the only one to get through. There are no others.
If I believed my stance was wrong, it would mean that I believe the Bible is wrong. I do not. There is no negotiation on this issue. It does not matter how many links who provide to articles about someone's interpretation of a verse. I believe that the Bible is God's word and is truth.
So does this guy, complete with Leviticus 18:22 tattooed in his arm.
"Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination"
- Leviticus 18:22 (KJV)
At least we know this idiot didn't read anything farther than that...
"Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the Lord."
- Leviticus 19:28
Just making a point and being extreme to get it across.. The point is that Christians do not want to be oppressed- and they will be and are oppressed by liberal elite...as for the portal...don't worry- I was the only one to get through. There are no others.
Haha. All those laws from liberals banning Christians from getting married, or serving in the military, or adopting children, or being hired as school teachers or for any other government position, or even having sex with other Christians. When liberals start proposing and passing such laws, then come talk to me about oppression.
Why is that odd? In essence, you're saying that although I support it, unless I agree with it, I'm wrong. How....tolerant.
If I'm a Christian and believe God's word on marriage, then of course, this is a spiritual dilemma for me. That's common sense.
Why is it a dilemma? By being a Christian that supports the RIGHT of OTHERS to get married to the same sex, I don't see how that conflicts with your personal beliefs?
Does your religion teach you that you shouldn't allow people freedom of conscious and spirituality in their own right? The freedom to make their own choices and decisions?
Seems to me you have no spiritual dilemma because for YOURSELF, the choice is clear... marriage = man + woman. You won't get a gay marriage, because it's against your own belief.
Seems to me the only dilemma you would have is if you were gay and a Christian with the belief that marriage = man + woman!
Not all Christians oppose gay marriage, that is a huge generalization. Christianity is comprised of many different religions with varying beliefs, many of whom are support gay marriage.
I wish it would go that way too, but it just doesn't seem in any way like a realistic development - at least not anytime soon (and by that I mean decades). And I'm not willing to wait. I want my equal rights yesterday. There is a law, and while it's unfortunate for some that it's called marriage in that they are so put off by homosexuality that they can't stand for the word marriage to be associated with gay people, the correct and timely remedy - in fact the Constitutionally mandated remedy - is to allow gay people equal access to that law.
This is the exact reason why I have changed my position on gay marriage. I used to oppose it, but now realize that the civil union thing isn't really going to get off the ground anytime soon and, in the meantime, people are being denied rights. So, I'm FOR gay marriage; I still do not agree with it. And as long as I'm not standing in your way, I don't see why that should be a problem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hammertime33
First off, most gay people in this country consider themselves Christians. Also, I wouldn't say many are "anti-religion." There is a difference between non-religious and anti-religion.
The most outspoken gay people that I know are anti-religious and pretty hateful when it comes to Christianity. I do, however, know Christian gay people, so I'm aware they do exist. It is just always interesting that the most outspoken gays are those who are anti-religion. The level of intolerance for differing viewpoint/personal belief is sometimes quite vicious (and hypocritical).
Quote:
Originally Posted by hammertime33
The fact is also that many people don't associate the word marriage with religion. I don't. Historically, marriage has not always been a religious concept. Christians don't own the term marriage. I will concede that in this country marriage has primarily been a religious, Christian thing - but this isn't a Christian theocracy. Christian doctrine does not control nor should it inform our laws.
Well, the US is largely Christian so it stands to reason that marriage is seen as a religious concept here. This isn't about "owning" anything. It's about subscribing to a belief system that gives a clear definition on what marriage is. A person can agree with a definition without trying to lay ownership to it.
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