Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Location: Charlotte,NC, US, North America, Earth, Alpha Quadrant,Milky Way Galaxy
3,770 posts, read 7,545,095 times
Reputation: 2118
Advertisements
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkeye48
Yes, I do think institutional racism still exists, and probably the biggest most widespread form of it is affirmative action. But I see racism and discrimination as part of the same problem. I see discrimination based on race, age, sex, height, handicap status, on bad breath, obesity, and too many numerous other types to mention. Is there institutional racism still in America? Sure there is. But all the other types of discrimination I mentioned are probably institutionalized as well.
But when it comes to the criminal courts and law enforcement I admit I'm biased. I used to be a corrections officer. I'm against, and oppose, every criminal regardless of their race. And I can honestly say, almost every single criminal I met while I managed jail housing units belonged there, regardless of their race.
But I think the courts and law enforcement in general are getting a bad rap when it comes to minority justice and institutional racism. There is a huge problem with crime in our minority neighborhoods, and most crime victims in black neighborhoods are victims of black on black crime. If the cops target a neighborhood then all the sudden they are arresting people for DWB, but if they don't target the minority areas where crime is high, then they get heat for deliberately ignoring the crime problems in our high crime minority areas.
To the point in the Jena 6 case. A young man, an athlete, who has been through the Juvie system a number of times on violent offenses. He has had more than one bite at the apple in the Juvie system. At what point does one have to start blaming oneself for ones own actions? This guy and his friends were stomping a guy when he was on the ground unconscious, and nothing anyone else did caused him to commit this horrible crime. It's almost like people are saying Barker deserved to be stomped because Bell suffered from black rage. I see no institutional racism in this case at all. Bell's attorney was black. US Attorney Donald Washington investigated the case and found no unfair judicial action. I honestly think that if you don't commit crimes, the police don't arrest you, regardless of one's race.
Mychal Bell has been dragged over and over before a judges due to his criminal behavior. There is an old saying, "...If you keep having problems over and over again then it's time to stop blaming other people for your problems..." Was it wrong for the other students to hang nooses on a tree? Of course it was. But it wasn't a violent crime, it was certainly a dumb thing to do, but it in no way rises to the level of the stomping Mychal Bell and his crew gave to Justin Barker.
Well, I'll say this- I respect that fact we can have a civil discussion, even though I very much disagree with you on nearly all your points- but there is something to be said for that.
The hanging of the noose was beyond a dumb thing- it is a crime. No different from a swastika, a burning cross- it was dismissed way to easily and brushed over. Probably that is telling at how we're both viewing this.
However to your point, a crime should be punished according to the law regardless of who you are, and given your time in the system, I'm sure you realize class, money, and influence contribute to the outcome. Your point is that he's had enough time in Juvenile Court, but isn't how the system is supposed to work- again, where we disagree on this.
Affirmative Action? Way to many threads have beat that to death so I'm even going to ressurect it here. I would agree with you that AA is discrimination, if our country were only 50 years old.
In an indirect way you are proving the point why the system needs oversite and why it's rightfully being watched by the Justice Department.
Well, I'll say this- I respect that fact we can have a civil discussion, even though I very much disagree with you on nearly all your points- but there is something to be said for that.
The hanging of the noose was beyond a dumb thing- it is a crime. No different from a swastika, a burning cross- it was dismissed way to easily and brushed over. Probably that is telling at how we're both viewing this.
Well, technically there is no crime in burning a cross, displaying a swastika, etc. It may be a spiritual crime, or a morally reprehensible thing to do, but it's not a crime.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miker2069
However to your point, a crime should be punished according to the law regardless of who you are, and given your time in the system, I'm sure you realize class, money, and influence contribute to the outcome. Your point is that he's had enough time in Juvenile Court, but isn't how the system is supposed to work- again, where we disagree on this.
What ALSO goes into calculations of whether or not an individual is charged as an adult, however, are things such as past criminal record, etc. (as is whether and how much bail is set for for any particular person charged with a crime).
To me, this whole thing has been overblown, and all sides need to take a breather. I firmly believe that if events were left to play out, any excessive conviction could have and would have been appealed successfully outside the small town trappings.
The hanging of the noose was beyond a dumb thing- it is a crime. No different from a swastika, a burning cross- it was dismissed way to easily and brushed over. Probably that is telling at how we're both viewing this.
However to your point, a crime should be punished according to the law regardless of who you are, and given your time in the system, I'm sure you realize class, money, and influence contribute to the outcome. Your point is that he's had enough time in Juvenile Court, but isn't how the system is supposed to work- again, where we disagree on this.
Honestly, I couldn't care less about the noose. It isn't a violent act. And I'm intelligent enough to realize a rope is just a rope. People can only be incited if they let others control them. And why would anyone want to give another person that kind of power over themselves? In all likelihood, more white people have probably died getting hung than black people anyway. As far as slaves that were hung, or black people that were lynched, at what point can people decide to get over it? Because isn't that what it takes?
To your Juvie comments, sure that's how the system is supposed to work. Just like when prosecutors petition the criminal court to get the case heard in adult court when circumstances warrant is how the system is also supposed to work. And this case certainly warrants Bell getting tried in adult court. Hopefully with hate crime enhancements. At least that way it will be much safer in his neighborhood for a while. Mark my words, anyone who would stomp someone unconscious is headed for prison in the future. In ten years Bell will have a felony record as long as your arm and he'll have caused people, probably most of them black, a lot of pain and suffering.
I wonder if you'd harbor the same argument if I were to post pictures of upside down crosses, pentagrams, a cross buster, upside down flags, people defiling the flag, swastikas, and the like.
I wonder if you'd harbor the same argument if I were to post pictures of upside down crosses, pentagrams, a cross buster, upside down flags, people defiling the flag, swastikas, and the like.
Turn the other cheek and all that?
I've seen most of those, but I never gathered a bunch of friends to jump someone.
Wasn't the point I was making. Nor was it directly the reason the kid got jumped.
The only reason the victim, Justin Barker, was jumped is that Mychal Bell and the rest of the Jena Six Predators made the decision to attack him. No one forced them to do it. No one made them do it. No one incited them to do it. They committed a vile criminal act because they actively decided to do so.
The only reason the victim, Justin Barker, was jumped is that Mychal Bell and the rest of the Jena Six Predators made the decision to attack him. No one forced them to do it. No one made them do it. No one incited them to do it. They committed a vile criminal act because they actively decided to do so.
Nothing gets by you, does it?
No one is disputing the above. But it also isn't as black and white as you'd want it to be.
Maybe that study was right: conservatives don't do nuance, do they?
09-21-2007, 10:36 PM
proudmary
n/a posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anchorless
Nothing gets by you, does it?
No one is disputing the above. But it also isn't as black and white as you'd want it to be.
Maybe that study was right: conservatives don't do nuance, do they?
Well this conservative doesn't do nuance, and yeah things are black and white to most of us. We're speaking about young white teens who displayed nooses. Was that bad? Yes. Was it a "hate crime" as Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, and other liberals want to call it? No.
Is a group of black boys, six on one, the one being a white boy, beating him until unconscious, and until the point of probable permanent eye and ear damage wrong? Yes. Ought the perps do time? Yes, a long time. Was what the black boys did to the white boy a "hate crime"? Well, I certainly wouldn't call it a "love crime" but since black on white crime cannot be called a hate crime in this PC soceity, what will we call it? How about uncivil, intolerable, animal like, and needing to be made an example of so as never to happen again? I vote for that.
The only reason the victim, Justin Barker, was jumped is that Mychal Bell and the rest of the Jena Six Predators made the decision to attack him. No one forced them to do it. No one made them do it. No one incited them to do it. They committed a vile criminal act because they actively decided to do so.
Dude, what's with the incitious language? What are you trying to prove, that these blacks are guilty vile predators and the whites are nothing but innocent pranksters?
Hanging a noose under the "white" tree is a CRIME, it's called ETHNIC INTIMIDATION. Everything that happens after that is thrown out.
White guy - gets misdemeanor charges.
Black guy - (same crime) ATTEMPTED MURDER
White guy - No charges for pulling shotgun on people.
Black guy - Arrested for wrestling the gun away from white guy.
I know this is the Amerikkka you want but it's not going down like that in 2007.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
