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Quote:
Originally Posted by ellemint
Why would the mother have had 3 firearms in the house, including a semi-automatic rifle? That alone is a ridiculous amount of firearms to have in an upper middle class safe neighborhood.
While guns are allowed in Norway and Switzerland I think regulations are so strict in those countries guns may as well be banned because there's no way the average citizen can just purchase one.
Guns are quite easy to purchase in Norway, I believe. You can get shotguns in a normal hunting shop. Assault weapons is a different story. There is a part of Norway where guns are compulsory, though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ellemint
Why would the mother have had 3 firearms in the house, including a semi-automatic rifle? That alone is a ridiculous amount of firearms to have in an upper middle class safe neighborhood.
Well, why would should she?
For the same reason I have an Audi and a truck: they perform different functions. My wife and I have four vehicles for the two of us. You probably question that as well.
I'm not sure why you think her neighborhood has any bearing on the number of guns she needed. That's just plain silly and funny. Your emotional position is standing in the way of logic.
I own guns - primarily hunting rifles. I purchased a handgun and hated the way it felt. I bought another which I liked better. Years ago we went to Alaska on a hunt. The guide recommended everyone carry a large-caliber revolver. The bears were very active for a couple of years. Revolvers tended to be more reliable in certain conditions according to the guide. So I bought another. My wife kept a small revolver in her car after she was assaulted. She escaped without sexual assault but she was traumatized for several years.
My kids were raised in a home with guns. Mine were always locked in a large safe and were only out as part of a hunting trip or if we went to the range. We weren't gun nuts. They were just a tool. I still raised them to understand and respect them. I was more worried about them running across a gun at a friend's house and not knowing what to do.
My girls didn't show much interest when younger but they were trained in safety. After their mom's trauma they wanted to at least feel like they could protect themselves.
My son enjoyed his .22 for range shooting. Our first hunt together was a great memory and we didn't fire a single round. Just two fathers and two sons in the great California outdoors.
By all accounts we were an affluent family in Palo Alto and we had maybe ten weapons of various types. And they have never hurt a human soul.
Someday soon I will hand them down to my kids. My younger daughter will likely marry her young man and he's an outdoor sort. They are both very liberal.
My son has wanted some family guns since he was a boy - guns that belonged to my grandfather. I will pass them along and let him carry that torch.
People like you who don't understand and respect guns take an emotional approach and position which in my opinion is more dangerous than any gun out there.
People like you who don't understand and respect guns take an emotional approach and position which in my opinion is more dangerous than any gun out there.
You're right. I can conceive of no reason why human beings should treat weapons that are designed to KILL as toys, collectibles, and a natural part of human life.
Take a damn hike with your kids and teach then how to photograph nature. Why does it have to be a gun? That's just STUPID.
It makes. no. sense. Period.
Just because you've bought into the story sold by the gun manufacturers, the NRA and millions upon millions of people who fantasize about being tough, taking out perps and showing off their toys to their equally delusional friends, doesn't mean that the entire gun worshipping culture is benign.
They're still WEAPONS. Sick people worship weapons. America is very, very sick.
PS. Hand down grandpa's watch. Why teach your children to revere a gun?
The second amendment being about protection from a tyrannical govt. is just your opinion and nothing more. Why is it that some people in this country have a bizarre idea about the evil govt. doing this or that to them? The Brits,Aussies,Japanese,etc. don`t seem to have this irrational fear.You can be sure that the world`s most powerful military would wipe out the Walmart militia by noon if they wanted to but why would they want to? If we have a tyrannical govt. it would be because we VOTED for a tyrannical govt. That`s what we do here,we vote. They`ll be no watering of some tree of liberty by somebody`s blood.
People like you who don't understand and respect guns take an emotional approach and position which in my opinion is more dangerous than any gun out there.
You're right. I can conceive of no reason why human beings should treat weapons that are designed to KILL as toys, collectibles, and a natural part of human life.
Take a damn hike with your kids and teach then how to photograph nature. Why does it have to be a gun? That's just STUPID.
It makes. no. sense. Period.
Just because you've bought into the story sold by the gun manufacturers, the NRA and millions upon millions of people who fantasize about being tough, taking out perps and showing off their toys to their equally delusional friends, doesn't mean that the entire gun worshipping culture is benign.
They're still WEAPONS. Sick people worship weapons. America is very, very sick.
PS. Hand down grandpa's watch. Why teach your children to revere a gun?
I hunt. I also hike. Recently went on a 13 mile hike on the continental divide trail with my son and had the fortune to harvest some spruce grouse. Had a great time and we get a nice Xmas treat this year for dinner.
Why would you impose your 'vision' of what you find fun or traditional or whatever on me? I find it sickening you would so freely choose to take that lawful activity away from me.
I served and I took an oath to defend the Constitution. I respect and admire those principles more than ever in today's special interest, bought and paid for political world. I am a gleeful independant.
I've shot competitively as a youth and in the military. I have taught firearm safety and marksmanship to my children and other youth. I am a well adjusted, well respected tax paying member of this great society of ours. I would never choose to take away your freedoms and expect the same from my fellow countrymen.
Does that mean I feel everyone deserves or has earned the right to own a firearm? No. It's too easy and the application process is a joke. The self certification process is as idiotic as they come. "are you now or have you ever suffered from mental illness? Yes or No?".... That's plain dumb.
Instead of clamoring to take away my rights- a responsible hunter, shooter, citizen, we should focus on a common sense approach to VIOLENCE CONTROL not GUN CONTROL. We need strictest control to access and transfer of firearms, a system to identify and control people who are mentally deranged and wake up morning and think " today's a good day to kill a bus load of kids". As far as I'm concerned people like that should only have access to a bucket of Playdoh.
Let's figure out the right thing to do as a society to confront the issue, not strip away 'guns'. That's not going ti solve the problem.
The framers of the US Constitution back in the 1780s had their reasons for placing the 2nd Amendment into the Constitution. They were as follows:
1. If the young, vulnerable republic was attacked by a European power (Great Britain, France or Spain), the United States would need to call up militias to defend cities and towns against invasion. Back then, the United States had a small standing army incapable of matching the manpower of the European armies. This was where the militias could be called to back up the professional army. Male citizens were permitted to keep rifles and pistols on their property in case they were called up for active duty. Militiamen were expected to provide of their own weaponry.
2. Protection of property and life against Indian attacks. As more Americans began crossing the Appalachians in search of land, they would no doubt encounter some hostile Indian tribes. Since the US government did not have a large enough military force to remove indigenous threats, the armed citizenry would be a capable alternative. As record numbers of white settlers poured into tribal lands, the Indians were no match from the firepower of the frontiersmen.
3. Use firearms to suppress black slave revolts. Since many of the Founding Fathers were slaveowners themselves, they adopted a strong interest in the 2nd Amendment. White families and the field managers were outnumbered by black slaves by a wide ratio. If the slaves were to rebel against the property master, the odds would favor the slaves in either killing or chasing away the white masters. The great equalizer was the firearm and family members and plantation managers were fully armed in case the slaves became hostile.
4. Hunting game for survival and leisure. In the late 18th century, the United States was a predominately rural society where families had to survive off the land. In addition to growing some crops, animals were hunted for food and clothing in the frontier areas.
So let's move ahead from 1789 to 2012. Do we still need to bear arms in this country if:
1. The United States is under no threat from foreign invasion from powers across the oceans. We are the preeminent global military superpower with the best air and naval defenses on the planet--protected by vast oceans. The all-volunteer military forces of today are infinitely greater in strength with numbers and experience compared to the rag-tag republic forces of 1789.
2. White America committed over 300 years of genocide against Native American tribes. The indigenous cultures have been reduced in population to such a point that they are inconsequential in current American history. There's no more Indian threat to the American population in 2012.
3. Slavery was abolished in 1863 and the 14th Amendment sealed the deal. There are no more black slaves in chains to worry about.
4. No need to hunt for meat and hides. In 2012, we have grocery stores, butcher shops and clothing stores.
The original framers believed in the right to bear arms because they were terrified of a foreign invasion by a European power, attacks by Indian tribes, violent rebellion by black slaves and settlers needed to kill animals for food and clothing. These reasons for arming citizens might have some merit in 1789 but not today.
My main concern has been the internal right-wing American threat. Before the national election, I would have disagreed with you due to the Republican Party's efforts to replace representative democracy with plutarchy through voter suppression, union-busting, etc. But given the positive outcome of the election, and demographic trends in the Democrats' favour, I think that further gun regulation is in order.
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