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Don't the Palestinians have the right to defend themselves? Or is that an "Israel-only" thing?
Of course they have a right to defend themselves.
They don't have a right to attack Israel, which they do at every opportunity.
If they are "defending themselves" from an Israeli attack that is done to prevent the Palestinians from attacking them again, then IMHO it is fair and just for Israel to break their defenses and lay waste to the militants that are harming Israel.
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What you're saying is, "if the Palestinians would just give up everything they have, then there'd be peace." Well, they've already done that. And there still is no peace.
They deserve to have their ability to attack Israel taken from them. If the "last thing they have left" is their ability to attack Israel and their obsession with revenge, and when that last thing is taken away they "have nothing," then yes, I view this as acceptable... however, I don't believe that this is the case, that this is "all they have left."
The reason that there is no peace is because of Palestine's obsession with vengeance. Once their quest for vengeance stops, the violence stops.
They really are one of the worst groups around at fighting; it would, in fact, behoove them to stop it and capitulate. Many fewer lives on either side would be lost.
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The Native Americans "learned their lesson" and went to sit on their reserves like good dogs.
I take it that you have some contempt towards Native Americans, then? Seems as though you love the fact that the Palestinians are constantly fighting. You obviously find it acceptable that they fight with Israel, but do you find it acceptable when they fight among themselves or other Arab nations?
Native Americans have all the same rights as any other American and are free to take advantage of the good things that America has to offer. If they want to go live and work in a city, they can. If they want to go to college, they can - and they also get preferential admissions, grants, etc... many of them do take advantage of these programs. If they want nothing to do with modern American society, they don't have to. The choice is theirs.
Even if the means with which America obtained its land was unethical, it happened long ago and the victims and perpetrators are long dead. Same goes for Israel; it was certainly more recent, but most of the people alive in the region today were born after its founding, and it's now their home too.
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The Palestinians apparently don't want to just sit and lose the little they have left. Can you blame them? Would YOU give up your house and home because someone else wanted it? I doubt it.
If I tried to use a gun to kill someone and his family because their grandfather committed a heinous act against my grandfather, but in the process of doing so, they disarmed me, beat the hell out of me, and then took my gun, I'm self-aware enough to be able to identify and say that I was an idiot for trying to fight them and deserved to get served and have my gun taken away.
Most of what the Palestinians have lost was lost before most Palestinians alive today were born, and before they even referred to themselves as "Palestinians." The Palestinians wouldn't lose anything more and would stand to gain much if they stopped fighting. It's as simple as that.
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A little bit of empathy goes a long way.
I empathize as much as I can with a group who elects their leaders based primarily on their commitment to murdering other nationals and exacting revenge for events that occurred long ago, finds it acceptable to persecute other religious and ethnic groups, commits all its resources to fighting, and refuses to give up even after it's clear that they should, getting their children killed in the process. I find it quite difficult to give my heart to people like this. If you are able to, then go for it... even if I could, I wouldn't want to.
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Peace.
brian
Quite ironic that you sign your messages with "peace" when you obviously don't support it.
They don't have a right to attack Israel, which they do at every opportunity.
If they are "defending themselves" from an Israeli attack that is done to prevent the Palestinians from attacking them again, then IMHO it is fair and just for Israel to break their defenses and lay waste to the militants that are harming Israel.
They deserve to have their ability to attack Israel taken from them. If the "last thing they have left" is their ability to attack Israel and their obsession with revenge, and when that last thing is taken away they "have nothing," then yes, I view this as acceptable... however, I don't believe that this is the case, that this is "all they have left."
The reason that there is no peace is because of Palestine's obsession with vengeance. Once their quest for vengeance stops, the violence stops.
They really are one of the worst groups around at fighting; it would, in fact, behoove them to stop it and capitulate. Many fewer lives on either side would be lost.
I take it that you have some contempt towards Native Americans, then? Seems as though you love the fact that the Palestinians are constantly fighting. You obviously find it acceptable that they fight with Israel, but do you find it acceptable when they fight among themselves or other Arab nations?
Native Americans have all the same rights as any other American and are free to take advantage of the good things that America has to offer. If they want to go live and work in a city, they can. If they want to go to college, they can - and they also get preferential admissions, grants, etc... many of them do take advantage of these programs. If they want nothing to do with modern American society, they don't have to. The choice is theirs.
Even if the means with which America obtained its land was unethical, it happened long ago and the victims and perpetrators are long dead. Same goes for Israel; it was certainly more recent, but most of the people alive in the region today were born after its founding, and it's now their home too.
If I tried to use a gun to kill someone and his family because their grandfather committed a heinous act against my grandfather, but in the process of doing so, they disarmed me, beat the hell out of me, and then took my gun, I'm self-aware enough to be able to identify and say that I was an idiot for trying to fight them and deserved to get served and have my gun taken away.
Most of what the Palestinians have lost was lost before most Palestinians alive today were born, and before they even referred to themselves as "Palestinians." The Palestinians wouldn't lose anything more and would stand to gain much if they stopped fighting. It's as simple as that.
I empathize as much as I can with a group who elects their leaders based primarily on their commitment to murdering other nationals and exacting revenge for events that occurred long ago, finds it acceptable to persecute other religious and ethnic groups, commits all its resources to fighting, and refuses to give up even after it's clear that they should, getting their children killed in the process. I find it quite difficult to give my heart to people like this. If you are able to, then go for it... even if I could, I wouldn't want to.
Quite ironic that you sign your messages with "peace" when you obviously don't support it.
If I invade your home, kick you out and call you a terrorist if you resist, am I in the right? Is a religion sufficient grounds to kick you out of your home so that I can build my own? And if you try to protect your home and family, I have the "right to defend myself," right? Aren't you a criminal if you resist me?
To me, such a scenario has nothing to do with peace. Sorry.
I don't know why anyone would willingly choose to live in this Hell on Earth region known as the Middle East-it is a despotic wasteland. Our country needs to end all relations with the region or we will destroy ourselves along with them.
I don't know why anyone would willingly choose to live in this Hell on Earth region known as the Middle East-it is a despotic wasteland. Our country needs to end all relations with the region or we will destroy ourselves along with them.
Now see, I can go along with this. I feel pretty much the same way.
What bugs me is folks that like to pretend there is no problem there and that the "non-problem" has nothing to do with religious fanaticism that has developed over centuries. Or claim that what's going on there is all our fault. I can agree that we fan the flames, have done some very foolish things there, and that we need to get out. But we didn't start it, we are not causing it, and by leaving will not suddenly cure it.
The best idea is to get out, let them kill one another, and not let the fanaticism overflow into other historically friendly and culturally like-minded nations.
If I invade your home, kick you out and call you a terrorist if you resist, am I in the right? Is a religion sufficient grounds to kick you out of your home so that I can build my own? And if you try to protect your home and family, I have the "right to defend myself," right? Aren't you a criminal if you resist me?
To me, such a scenario has nothing to do with peace. Sorry.
Peace.
brian
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Well; if it wasn't your home to begin with but you were simply squatting there as a result of no neighbouring Arab country allowing you entrance AND if the original title holder came back into the area after a long time forced exile from that area AND if the rest of the worlds organized committee decided that's where these exiles were going to be dropped rather than accept them themselves, you could hardly blame the people being forced to return to their homeland after your ancestors had sent them into exile could you?
Firstly it would not be called an invasion, it was called a re-settlement, secondly if given the option to share but you refuse based on your commitment to eradication of the returning settlers. Thirdly no other Arab nation has stepped forward to soften the plight of these so-called Palestinians, but rather joined in isolating them to their serving as the pointy end of the stick by which they continue to prod Israel at the retarded "so-called" Palestinian's expense.
One day these "so-called" Palestinians will look to the treatment extended to them by their brethren AAAARABS and wonder; how could we have been so fugging stupid as to waste so many years and lives in serving as the pincushion for our fellow rag-heads?
How is it those Arabs who have chosen to forsake this nonsense and living peacefully within Israel manage to thrive and prosper?
If it's Peace you're truly interested in Brian; show your outrage at those who choose to ignore (such as the U.N.) the strapping of suicide bombs onto the chests of children for decades now and manage to wait until Israel takes the gloves off before getting all faux outraged.
If I invade your home, kick you out and call you a terrorist if you resist, am I in the right? Is a religion sufficient grounds to kick you out of your home so that I can build my own? And if you try to protect your home and family, I have the "right to defend myself," right? Aren't you a criminal if you resist me?
To me, such a scenario has nothing to do with peace. Sorry.
Peace.
brian
So what are you proposing? Israel is NEVER going to give up it's country. You do know that, right? You are not fooling yourself into thinking that one day, they will just leave, are you? There is no hope of that ever happening. Some people think they should, and some think they shouldn't, but opinions mean very little. It is not even in the realm of possibility.
So with that out of the way, what are you suggesting is the peaceful action that Israel should take? Just allow rocket attacks and suicide bombers with no retaliation? Is that the peaceful solution you are looking for?
If I invade your home, kick you out and call you a terrorist if you resist, am I in the right? Is a religion sufficient grounds to kick you out of your home so that I can build my own? And if you try to protect your home and family, I have the "right to defend myself," right? Aren't you a criminal if you resist me?
This is the same gross oversimplification you keep repeating to everyone.
If someone fires on Israeli soldiers as they try to force an innocent person out of their home, then that's one thing. Launching rockets indiscriminately, or specifically targeting civilians by bombing a bus, or bombing a nightclub, or shooting up a random car driving by, etc., is not "resistance" ... it's terrorism. The people who carry out these acts are terrorists. The people who support these acts are, by proxy, supporting terrorism. It's not a difficult concept to grasp.
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To me, such a scenario has nothing to do with peace. Sorry.
Peace.
brian
If you still find violence to be something worthy of attainment, I don't think you should be saying "peace" to people unless it's for the sake of pure irony.
Are you seriously connecting supporting the right of Israel to exist with being against gay marriage?
Wow, if this is the case, pigs must fly, aliens created humans, and global warming is a hoax.
Yeah, I'm talking to you.
You must have difficultly reading, as that wasn't remotely what I said. My post was in response to something about child abuse. Israel never even entered the discussion.
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