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You claiming that this whole ordeal is Trayvon's fault is the same as the people claiming Zimmerman is a cold blooded murderer. Nobody knows what happened except Martin and Zimmerman... how are you gonna sh(t on a child's death based off that? And, then to compound it as if the child deserved to be killed? C'mon...
But we do know some indisputable facts:
1 - Trayvon caught Zimmerman's attention and Zimmerman started following him. Zimmerman was a member of the Neighborhood Watch program.
2 - Zimmerman had a gun. Trayvon was unarmed.
3 - Trayvon was returning from a trip to the corner store back to his step-mother's condo where his little brother was waiting for him. He was carrying Skittles and a container of Iced Tea.
4 - Trayvon had no criminal history, nor any charges against him for violent crime. He had been suspended three times from school, but because of tardiness, graffiti and having a marijuana pipe.
5 - In 2005 Zimmerman was charged with assaulting a police officer and resisting arrest. The charges were reduced, then dropped when Zimmerman entered a pre-trial diversion program. Also in 2005, Zimmerman's ex-fiance filed a restraining order against him, alleging domestic violence. Zimmerman requested a reciprocal restraining order. Both orders were granted. Shooting of Trayvon Martin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
6 - Trayvon placed a call to his girlfriend during the time period Zimmerman was following him.
7 - Zimmerman placed a call to the police to say he saw a suspicious person, he admitted that he had been tailing Martin in his truck, and was told not to pursue him further. At that point he was in his truck, on the phone, and he was under no threat from Trayvon. But he admits that he did get out of his truck and follow Martin. He at no point indicated that Martin had followed him.
8 - When Trayvon and Zimmerman finally encountered each other, Zimmerman had his gun on him.
9- Zimmerman shot Trayvon in the chest.
10 - Trayvon was found dead about 170 feet from his step-mother's condo.
The rest is going to come down to witnesses and testimony, including Zimmerman's own statements to the police, crime scene analysis, and analysis of the events in time.
1 - Trayvon caught Zimmerman's attention and Zimmerman started following him. Zimmerman was a member of the Neighborhood Watch program.
2 - Zimmerman had a gun. Trayvon was unarmed.
3 - Trayvon was returning from a trip to the corner store back to his step-mother's condo where his little brother was waiting for him. He was carrying Skittles and a container of Iced Tea.
4 - Trayvon had no criminal history, nor any charges against him for violent crime. He had been suspended three times from school, but because of tardiness, graffiti and having a marijuana pipe.
5 - In 2005 Zimmerman was charged with assaulting a police officer and resisting arrest. The charges were reduced, then dropped when Zimmerman entered a pre-trial diversion program. Also in 2005, Zimmerman's ex-fiance filed a restraining order against him, alleging domestic violence. Zimmerman requested a reciprocal restraining order. Both orders were granted. Shooting of Trayvon Martin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
4 - Trayvon placed a call to his girlfriend during the time period Zimmerman was following him.
5 - Zimmerman placed a call to the police to say he saw a suspicious person, he admitted that he had been tailing Martin in his truck, and was told not to pursue him further. At that point he was in his truck, on the phone, and he was under no threat from Trayvon. But he admits that he did get out of his truck and follow Martin. He at no point indicated that Martin had followed him.
6 - When Trayvon and Zimmerman finally encountered each other, Zimmerman had his gun on him.
7 - Zimmerman shot Trayvon in the chest.
8 - Trayvon was found dead about 170 feet from his step-mother's condo.
The rest is going to come down to witnesses and testimony, including Zimmerman's own statements to the police, crime scene analysis, and analysis of the events in time.
Your first number 5 cannot be brought out in the trial unless Zimmerman himself takes the stand and makes any reference to them. That seems highly unlikely to me. In your second number 5, there is a dispute about whether or not Zimmerman felt he was under threat by Trayvon at one point in his vehicle. Zimmerman has said that Trayvon was circling the vehicle, looking inside at him, in a threatening manner.
Your number 5 cannot be brought out in the trial unless Zimmerman himself takes the stand and makes any reference to them. That seems highly unlikely to me.
Yes it can, because there is a police recording of the call. That recording not only captured everything that was said, but puts Zimmerman in his truck, and also pinpoints exactly when he made the call and how long it lasted.
They also have the exact time and duration of the call Trayvon made to his girlfriend, although the content of the call relies on her testimony.
Yes it can, because there is a police recording of the call. That recording not only captured everything that was said, but puts Zimmerman in his truck, and also pinpoints exactly when he made the call and how long it lasted.
They also have the exact time and duration of the call Trayvon made to his girlfriend, although the content of the call relies on her testimony.
Your FIRST number 5 refers to previous arrests and contact with law enforcement and a restraining order. Testimony about other cases in which the defendant may have been involved CANNOT be brought out in a trial for a different offense unless the defendant himself makes any reference to those other cases. Or unless the State files a Williams rule motion and the Court finds that the evidence fits the Williams Rule evidence requirement, then it can be presented to the jury.
Your SECOND number 5 is a fact in dispute because Zimmerman has made statements about Martin approaching the vehicle and that he was fearful of him. That's why it will likely be an issue for the jury to decide in the trial. The jury is there to make a determination about facts in dispute.
You made the statement that your list were facts not disputed.
Your first number 5 cannot be brought out in the trial unless Zimmerman himself takes the stand and makes any reference to them. That seems highly unlikely to me. In your second number 5, there is a dispute about whether or not Zimmerman felt he was under threat by Trayvon at one point in his vehicle. Zimmerman has said that Trayvon was circling the vehicle, looking inside at him, in a threatening manner.
I went back and changed the numbering to straighten out my post.
That is probably true, about previous criminal history. But if the defense wants to bring up Trayvon's history of suspensions, then I would think that Zimmerman's history would also be fair game.
As to the second point, it might very well be under dispute as to whether or not Zimmerman felt threatened at the time he made the call. But it remains a fact that when he placed the call to the police, he was in his truck with a gun, and he did not say that Trayvon was coming towards him or threatening him in any way. In fact I think when he placed the call to the police, Trayvon had already disappeared from view. Which would represent little or no threat to Zimmerman's life at all.
Also, we have the phone call for Zimmerman's description of what Martin was doing. He said Martin was walking out in the open, but looking around him, and that he thought he was on drugs. He didn't say Martin was trying car doors, or going up to windows, or hiding in the bushes or anything like that.
I went back and changed the numbering to straighten out my post.
That is probably true, about previous criminal history. But if the defense wants to bring up Trayvon's history of suspensions, then I would think that Zimmerman's history would also be fair game.
As to the second point, it might very well be under dispute as to whether or not Zimmerman felt threatened at the time he made the call. But it remains a fact that when he placed the call to the police, he was in his truck with a gun, and he did not say that Trayvon was coming towards him or threatening him in any way. In fact I think when he placed the call to the police, Trayvon had already disappeared from view. Which would represent little or no threat to Zimmerman's life at all.
Also, we have the phone call for Zimmerman's description of what Martin was doing. He said Martin was walking out in the open, but looking around him, and that he thought he was on drugs. He didn't say Martin was trying car doors, or going up to windows, or hiding in the bushes or anything like that.
You may think that Zimmerman's past criminal record would be "fair game," but the laws of Florida do not agree with what you think. Unless Zimmerman's past criminal record fits the requirements of the Williams Rule, it CANNOT be brought up by the State. If the defense brings up Zimmerman's past criminal record, then the State can present that record to the jury. I think experienced lawyers know that and cannot imagine Zimmerman or his lawyers bringing up that past in the trial.
If I remember correctly, Zimmerman either in his phone conversation with the dispatcher or in one of his statements said that Trayvon came up to his vehicle and walked around it and looked in it at him. The defense has filed an affirmative defense of self defense in this case, so, therefore, they are required to put on a case. I would think that they would try to present evidence of Trayvon approaching Zimmerman's vehicle during their case. This simply means it is a "fact" in dispute and the jury would have to decide what is the truth or not the truth about the claim.
I don't believe that Trayvon's past "record" will come in either, but then, of course, Trayvon is not on trial. Zimmerman is the defendant.
You may think that Zimmerman's past criminal record would be "fair game," but the laws of Florida do not agree with what you think. Unless Zimmerman's past criminal record fits the requirements of the Williams Rule, it CANNOT be brought up by the State. If the defense brings up Zimmerman's past criminal record, then the State can present that record to the jury. I think experienced lawyers know that and cannot imagine Zimmerman or his lawyers bringing up that past in the trial.
If I remember correctly, Zimmerman either in his phone conversation with the dispatcher or in one of his statements said that Trayvon came up to his vehicle and walked around it and looked in it at him. The defense has filed an affirmative defense of self defense in this case, so, therefore, they are required to put on a case. I would think that they would try to present evidence of Trayvon approaching Zimmerman's vehicle during their case. This simply means it is a "fact" in dispute and the jury would have to decide what is the truth or not the truth about the claim.
I don't believe that Trayvon's past "record" will come in either, but then, of course, Trayvon is not on trial. Zimmerman is the defendant.
Zimmerman gave different accounts of the time before he shot Trayvon.
Yes, in the call to the police he does say Trayvon circled the vehicle, (which makes no sense.) Here is a transcript of his call to the police:
In later statements, as well as a re-enactment he did for the police, which can be found on YouTube, he changed his story a few times. Some of the inconsistencies are in this article;
When I mentioned the facts of Zimmerman's charges for violent crime, I wasn't saying that those facts would necessarily be allowed to be presented to the jury. But I find it relevant that Zimmerman had shoved a police officer and resisted arrest, because this suggests someone who is violent, impulsive and aggressive. I mean, it takes a pretty aggressive person to assault a police officer, or at least gives evidence of being a hot head.
Similarly, it is relevant to me that Trayvon had no record of violent crime, or any suspensions at school for fighting or violence of any kind.
The perpetrator had a history of violence, and the victim did not. To me, that is relevant.
In later statements, as well as a re-enactment he did for the police, which can be found on YouTube, he changed his story a few times. Some of the inconsistencies are in this article;
All of the above ^^^^ makes this issue about what Trayvon did or did not do a question of "fact" which the jury must decide, IF the defense brings it up, that is. When both sides do NOT agree about an issue, then it is a "fact" in dispute for the jury to decide. We will learn what all the issues (facts in dispute) are when the evidence is presented by both sides. There are some facts (elements of the crime) which will be presented which both sides agree to, such as Trayvon Martin was killed by a gunshot wound. The Medical Examiner will testify to that. Details about the gunshot may be disputed, such as how close was the gun to Trayvon's body at the time the gun was fired, but the fact that Trayvon is dead and died as a result of a gunshot wound is not in dispute.
Many of the details you cite in your list could very well be in dispute. What we know right now is just what has been revealed in the media.......NOT everything each side has learned during the discovery process. However, another undisputed fact will the be location of the death of Trayvon in terms of venue for the court to be conducting the trial, etc., etc., etc.
When I mentioned the facts of Zimmerman's charges for violent crime, I wasn't saying that those facts would necessarily be allowed to be presented to the jury. But I find it relevant that Zimmerman had shoved a police officer and resisted arrest, because this suggests someone who is violent, impulsive and aggressive. I mean, it takes a pretty aggressive person to assault a police officer, or at least gives evidence of being a hot head.
Similarly, it is relevant to me that Trayvon had no record of violent crime, or any suspensions at school for fighting or violence of any kind.
The perpetrator had a history of violence, and the victim did not. To me, that is relevant.
I understand that it is important and relevant to you. HOWEVER, Florida law specifically disagrees with you concerning bringing in evidence of previous crimes committed or arrests of the defendant, etc., in a trial. Allowing that information to be presented to the jury PREJUDICES the jury. The defendant is on trial for a specific offense and only that offense. There are specific laws and requirements to be met in order to bring in evidence of prior crimes, etc. If those requirements are not met (Williams Rule LAW) then the past criminal record is NOT ALLOWED to be presented to the jury. Defendants are being tried for the offense they are currently charged with, not for their previous criminal history or other cases. They have already been tried for or pled guilty to those previous charges. They CANNOT be used against the defendant in a new trial for new charges UNLESS they meet the Williams Rule requirements or the defendant or his lawyer present some evidence of that past criminal record. ONLY THEN can the State bring evidence of that prior criminal record before the jury. You may not like it, but that's the LAW in Florida. Criminal trials are presented in accordance with the Florida Rules of Criminal Procedure and Florida LAW.
I don't believe that Trayvon's "history" will be allowed in either. Tryavon will not be on trial. I don't think that they will be able to get into why Trayvon was staying with his father at his father's girlfriend's condo either. I think it will be considered irrelevant, or rather ruled irrelevant.
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