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There was an American injured in Toronto recently and he pleaded not to be taken to one of those hell hole Canadian hospitals. Where did this person get that misinformation? Our hospitals are the finest in the world. If you were to have a brain tumor...the average person would be entitled to the same surgeon that would treat a President or an indigent beggar. Our system is expensive - but it works. I took a tour of Saint Michael's Hospital in Toronto recently...It is a large urban hospital...clean- modern - staffed by the worlds best...and some of the finest equipment in the world is payed for through private donations...Rich people believe it is their duty to support our hospitals...In America the super rich think of hospitals as a business or investment...Health care is NOT a business....it is a human duty of one person doing their best to preserve and care for the next- You guys down in the states had better get with it.
A sensible approach that begs the question: countries with Universal types of health care have also, in some manner, controlled exorbitant drug costs for their citizens. Why then cannot the U.S. arrive at the same result, albeit decades late to the game?
In reading these forums and some of their opinions related to their impression they're subsidizing our health care provisions through unfairly paying of exorbitant fees for everything from insurance, drugs and even minor operations; one has to ask: what does that make them on the intelligence metric if they're the only ones holding out due to the "capitalistic" red herring? Oh wait, I believe another poster has already laid claim to the use of that "M" word descriptor.
I think its a very important element of our health system, and I sometimes suspect that Australian's don't realise how good they have it.
There are some drugs that don't fall under the PBS, these can still be purchased but at a much higher cost.
On the whole, this system works...
I do find the US system a little odd, all round. I don't understand why its reasonable for a workplace to subsidise health insurance, but not a government - {in which I pay medicare tax levy etc}... (serious, not being sarcastic... it doesn't make much sense to me)..
A sensible approach that begs the question: countries with Universal types of health care have also, in some manner, controlled exorbitant drug costs for their citizens. Why then cannot the U.S. arrive at the same result, albeit decades late to the game?
In reading these forums and some of their opinions related to their impression they're subsidizing our health care provisions through unfairly paying of exorbitant fees for everything from insurance, drugs and even minor operations; one has to ask: what does that make them on the intelligence metric if they're the only ones holding out due to the "capitalistic" red herring? Oh wait, I believe another poster has already laid claim to the use of that "M" word descriptor.
It's easier for drug companies to charge more in places where they are negotiating with fragmented private parties than with a single party (the government) which also has the power of being the government on it's side. HOWEVER, without the ultra-high prices here to fund their operations, profits, and research, the government buyers in other countries couldn't keep prices down because it would kill the goose that lays the golden eggs (the pharma companies), so prices would rise there.
If we went to a state-negotiating system prices would go down here, but that's not the only way to do it. The free-riding could be stopped in a simple and standalone way: allowing drug reimportation (this was part of the ACA via the Dorgan amendment at one point, but was killed because the Obama administration and lead Democrats in congress wanted support from the pharma lobby). They would not however go down as low as they are everywhere else right now, and everywhere else (or at least the other rich countries) would have their costs rocket up as they wouldn't be free riding on us anymore.
I do completely agree with you that it's absolutely idiotic and bad policy that we don't aggressively move to change things in this respect, but you don't need universal care to do it, just allowing reimportation (throw on patent protection loss if companies sell for massively more here than in other rich countries if you want to accelerate the shift).
There was an American injured in Toronto recently and he pleaded not to be taken to one of those hell hole Canadian hospitals. Where did this person get that misinformation? Our hospitals are the finest in the world. If you were to have a brain tumor...the average person would be entitled to the same surgeon that would treat a President or an indigent beggar. Our system is expensive - but it works. I took a tour of Saint Michael's Hospital in Toronto recently...It is a large urban hospital...clean- modern - staffed by the worlds best...and some of the finest equipment in the world is payed for through private donations...Rich people believe it is their duty to support our hospitals...In America the super rich think of hospitals as a business or investment...Health care is NOT a business....it is a human duty of one person doing their best to preserve and care for the next- You guys down in the states had better get with it.
This would be the episode you refer to and it was John Malkovitch who was right there at the time to help this man and also convince him to calm down. He is among many actors who've worked in Canada and are well aware of our health care quality being as good as or better.
There was an American injured in Toronto recently and he pleaded not to be taken to one of those hell hole Canadian hospitals. Where did this person get that misinformation? Our hospitals are the finest in the world. If you were to have a brain tumor...the average person would be entitled to the same surgeon that would treat a President or an indigent beggar. Our system is expensive - but it works. I took a tour of Saint Michael's Hospital in Toronto recently...It is a large urban hospital...clean- modern - staffed by the worlds best...and some of the finest equipment in the world is payed for through private donations...Rich people believe it is their duty to support our hospitals...In America the super rich think of hospitals as a business or investment...Health care is NOT a business....it is a human duty of one person doing their best to preserve and care for the next- You guys down in the states had better get with it.
Was that the guy John Malcovich helped? Yeah, he sure changed his tune after being treated in one of our "substandard county hospitals." He had nothing but good things to say after that.
It's easier for drug companies to charge more in places where they are negotiating with fragmented private parties than with a single party (the government) which also has the power of being the government on it's side. HOWEVER, without the ultra-high prices here to fund their operations, profits, and research, the government buyers in other countries couldn't keep prices down because it would kill the goose that lays the golden eggs (the pharma companies), so prices would rise there.
If we went to a state-negotiating system prices would go down here, but that's not the only way to do it. The free-riding could be stopped in a simple and standalone way: allowing drug reimportation (this was part of the ACA via the Dorgan amendment at one point, but was killed because the Obama administration and lead Democrats in congress wanted support from the pharma lobby). They would not however go down as low as they are everywhere else right now, and everywhere else (or at least the other rich countries) would have their costs rocket up as they wouldn't be free riding on us anymore.
I do completely agree with you that it's absolutely idiotic and bad policy that we don't aggressively move to change things in this respect, but you don't need universal care to do it, just allowing reimportation (throw on patent protection loss if companies sell for massively more here than in other rich countries if you want to accelerate the shift).
I know they've sold you this bill of goods but you need to look at the cost of manufacturing that drug on going EVEN after it's patent has expired. Your argument does not hold water. No one is free riding on your backs.
They're charging you more because you'll pay it. it's called country pricing and all manufacturer's engage in it.
We pay 137% more for Bayer aspirin over the counter up here due to this country pricing system.
We pay more for a car built right here in Canada and are told it's "import duties" with a straight face.
In this regard the shoe is on the other foot and perhaps we are subsidizing your ability to demand a discount for simply walking through the show room door across the full spectrum of manufactured goods.
GPs used to be upper middle class in America. I know this because it wasn't that long ago and I remember. Now they think they should be rich. So long as that is the case, healthcare will remain unaffordable and will bankrupt the country.
The kid architect engineer who designed your iPhone or Facebook makes more than your average GP and yet people line up 100 deep to pay for.a $600 phone manufactured by slave labor so they can download the latest Facebook app so they can twitter a pic of their $12 martini to their other poor friends.
Doctors' salaries are the tip of the iceberg. Reduce those, and everything else will follow. Nurses salaries are also ridiculously inflated. But go into any practice today and watch the billing racket in action. It's not medicine they're practicing, it's insurance fraud.
Higher Ed (particularly for medical school) is also engaged in racketeering.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordSquidworth
Has nothing to do with salaries.
Look at administration, billing costs, the cost of medical goods, etc. That's where the problems are.
Doctor in a city where I have a house recently stopped accepting insurance, cut his rates 50%, you can bill your insurance yourself.
What LordSquidworth said. I can't believe people are kvetching about nursing salaries.
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