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Old 03-09-2014, 12:42 AM
 
Location: SoCal
5,899 posts, read 5,798,952 times
Reputation: 1930

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank_Carbonni View Post
1. The main difference is that the fetus needs the live off the body of the mother. Let's say for example, that one day you woke up to another person attached to you. They were half formed and in a vegetative state and relied solely on your body for survival. Would you be wrong in having them surgically removed? Even if they probably would be able to become a functional human being in due time?

2. And someone know needs a blood or bone marrow transplant to survive is a bit different. It is not like they will come up to you and suck the blood from your body in order to live.

3. You have the choice to donate blood or bone marrow, but you are not forced to.

4. I will admit there a definite gray area with abortion. Specifically the last stages when birth can be induced and there is little need for medical care for the fetus. In those cases, I think the comparisons between abortion and infanticide are not inappropriate. However, the majority of abortions are during the first trimester and very few "Partial-birth abortions" carried out on a healthy fetus in the third trimester.
1. It should probably depend on whether I was responsible for creating a situation with a dependent individual. If so, then Yes, I should (at least generally) help this individual out, including by letting this individual use my body. Else, No.

For instance, if this dependent individual was purely hypothetically created by me as a result of a science experiment or something, then Yes, I should either be forced to help this individual out or (perhaps more likely) have the option of "unplugging" this individual from my body but be prosecuted if I actually do this and if this results in this individual's death.

2. No, but they are still dependent on machines and/or on someone's body parts in order to survive (for more than a specific amount/period of time). I think that you previously said that part of the reason why you don't consider many embryos and/or fetuses to be persons is because they are not viable. If so, then individuals who are on dialysis and/or who need transfusions/transplants of other people's body parts in order to survive can also easily fit into this category.

If I am misunderstanding your argument here, please let me know.

3. Yes, you are currently legally correct. Of course, for the record, I don't think that one is able to reclaim one's body parts if they were already accidentally donated to someone else without his or her consent in a hospital mix-up or something like that.

That said, I don't agree with the current law in regards to this. I do think that individuals should have this choice, but if it is their fault that this other individual needs a new kidney/blood/bone marrow/et cetera in the first place, then they should be held responsible for this other individual's death if their refusal to donate leads to this outcome.

4. Yeah, I see where you are coming from here.

That said, which mental abilities do you think individuals should have in order for you to consider them to be persons? The debate over mental abilities is pretty interesting, IMHO. In fact, I think that individuals such as Peter Singer argue that since human infants have equal or lesser current mental abilities to certain animals, they shouldn't be given more rights and/or preferential treatment to these non-human animals. (In contrast, most other people probably place some value in future mental abilities in regards to justifying this preferential treatment and greater rights for human infants.)

 
Old 03-09-2014, 01:27 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles, California
4,373 posts, read 3,230,467 times
Reputation: 1041
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJJersey View Post
Biology doesn't say that.
The bible doesn't say anything on it either.

Life starts outside the womb.
 
Old 03-09-2014, 01:47 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles, California
4,373 posts, read 3,230,467 times
Reputation: 1041
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
Doubling down on dumb.
Nope. Doubling down on when life starts. Sorry if it's difficult for you to understand.

Either way - woman's body, woman's choice.
 
Old 03-09-2014, 07:02 AM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,231,797 times
Reputation: 17209
Quote:
Originally Posted by adiosToreador View Post
Nope. Doubling down on when life starts. Sorry if it's difficult for you to understand.

Either way - woman's body, woman's choice.
Two separate arguments and you tripled down.
 
Old 03-09-2014, 08:54 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles, California
4,373 posts, read 3,230,467 times
Reputation: 1041
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
Two separate arguments and you tripled down.
Nope. In terms of the law, life begins outside the womb when the first breath is taken by the newborn. Hence the term "newborn".

This thread is about abortion and abortion clinics. I'm saying that abortion is a woman's choice since it's her body.

Follow?
 
Old 03-09-2014, 09:57 AM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,231,797 times
Reputation: 17209
Quote:
Originally Posted by adiosToreador View Post
Nope. In terms of the law, life begins outside the womb when the first breath is taken by the newborn. Hence the term "newborn".
Even this is not true. I have no idea why you want to dig yourself even deeper.

Quote:
This thread is about abortion and abortion clinics. I'm saying that abortion is a woman's choice since it's her body.

Follow?
That's fine, your opinion is your opinion and you are the expert on your opinion but I would leave it there if I was you.
 
Old 03-09-2014, 10:17 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,519,997 times
Reputation: 27720
Quote:
Originally Posted by afoigrokerkok View Post
2 more Texas clinics close under new abortion law | Top Stories | News from Fort Worth, ...

Among the two is the only abortion clinic in the Rio Grande Valley, an area with over a million people.
So only 1 abortion clinic was there to serve over a million people ?

I guess they forgot about this place ?
Oh and there are others but I'm just posting this one to show you that there was more than 1 abortion clinic serving the Rio Grande Valley all along.

The article is nothing more than fear mongering.

Harlingen is in the Rio Grande Valley:
Reproductive Services of Harlingen
 
Old 03-09-2014, 10:58 AM
 
1,970 posts, read 1,762,400 times
Reputation: 991
Quote:
Originally Posted by adiosToreador View Post
The bible doesn't say anything on it either.

Life starts outside the womb.
Life starts at conception. Funny how the people who believe in evolution don't even understand basic science. LOLOLOLOLOL
 
Old 03-09-2014, 11:12 AM
 
Location: New Jersey
16,911 posts, read 10,598,766 times
Reputation: 16439
Quote:
Originally Posted by adiosToreador View Post
The bible doesn't say anything on it either.

Life starts outside the womb.
Who cares what the bible says? Life does not start outside the womb, that's just something you and other people made up.
 
Old 03-09-2014, 11:14 AM
 
Location: New Jersey
16,911 posts, read 10,598,766 times
Reputation: 16439
Quote:
Originally Posted by adiosToreador View Post
Nope. In terms of the law, life begins outside the womb when the first breath is taken by the newborn. Hence the term "newborn".

This thread is about abortion and abortion clinics. I'm saying that abortion is a woman's choice since it's her body.

Follow?
This isn't true either. There are plenty of feticide laws, and there are plenty of legal examples in which a person who kills a fetus can be held legally responsible for its death.
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