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itsmostly local and often libertians that I read about. I am conservative and he needs to pay for federal land use like others like oil and gas. but he isn't the only one that wants stuff free as individual; far from it.
I agree with this. I see mostly libertarian leaning GOPers who are all for the Bundy guy.
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Originally Posted by nononsenseguy
You keep talking about the "significant risk of leaks". Are you telling us that we are not capable of building a pipeline (welding together sections of pipes) that do not leak?
Do the pipes in your home leak?
No we are not capable. All pipes leak at some time or another due to time and degrading of material.
Those of you comparing trains and trucks aren't taking into consideration that leaky pipes, if under ground, are not property monitored or maintained and that oil can continuously leak for many years into soil and contaminate the groundwater of affected communities and cause horrible health risks until they are detected. A train derailment or truck crash can be cleaned up pretty quickly and is a one time thing that we all would be aware of due to the nature of derailments and collisions. Holes or cracks in pipes...not so much.
I agree with this. I see mostly libertarian leaning GOPers who are all for the Bundy guy.
No we are not capable. All pipes leak at some time or another due to time and degrading of material.
Those of you comparing trains and trucks aren't taking into consideration that leaky pipes, if under ground, are not property monitored or maintained and that oil can continuously leak for many years into soil and contaminate the groundwater of affected communities and cause horrible health risks until they are detected. A train derailment or truck crash can be cleaned up pretty quickly and is a one time thing that we all would be aware of due to the nature of derailments and collisions. Holes or cracks in pipes...not so much.
The risk of a pipeline leak is MUCH lower than the risk of the derailment of a 100 car train loaded with the highly volatile Bakken crude in the middle of some town.
YOU can explain to those people why that train was in their town, instead of that oil being sent down a pipeline.
Take a look at the Alaskan pipeline. Works as planned WHEN! The company servicing it actually do there jobs and replace section etc. Check out there record on proper maintenance.. Very poor.
We cannot. I know you are being facetious but the Earth actually does release or "leak" small amounts of its atmosphere into outer space every day. Magma and molten rock and lava continuously spew from the center of the Earth. There is no way for us to stop it.
We cannot. I know you are being facetious but the Earth actually does release or "leak" small amounts of its atmosphere into outer space every day. Magma and molten rock and lava continuously spew from the center of the Earth. There is no way for us to stop it.
I don't know a single conservative that supports eminent domain to confiscate private property for private economic development. In fact, exactly the opposite.
As long as a Democrat is the president, if the government says to jump, libs ask how high.
I'd really like an explanation of this incongruity.
Conservatives are painting Cliven Bundy as a little guy being oppressed by the government, when the land he has grazed on for 20 years without paying is not his and never his, but instead belongs to the American people and is managed by the Department of the Interior, just like every federal national forest, oil field, and mineral deposit-- all of which you pay royalties to exploit commercially.
Actually, the public lands on which Bundy's cattle grazed are the responsibility of State of Nevada...not the
the Federal Dept. of Interior. BLM has no business managing these lands. The Bundy family has grazed cattle on these lands since the late 1800's when the ranch was established and then paid grazing fees to the State of Nevada when that fee was established. Bundy's position is that he will pay Nevada but not Federal. He is right. We have just "let" the BLM and the US Forest Service move in and manage a lot of the publics land, they have done a very bad job and we need to get them out and put public lands back in the hands and under management jurisdiction of the appropriate States in which said land is located.
I can speak from experience in that the public lands surrounding the area in which I live were taken over by BLM after the residents of this area stopped this thievery from being approved by the Senate at least 4 times and then The Senate leadership behind closed doors approved the stealing by BLM and shoved it down our throats. Cattle ranches who had grazed cattle in the confiscated area for over 100 years were kicked out, the sheep herds who traveled through for as many if not more years were prohibited from their spring travel resulting in totally demolishing the wonderful and beautiful desert wild flowers which the sheep cultivated/buried (planted) the seeds/fertilized for the next year's crop, and I could go on and on.
So, yes, I back the stand made by the Bundy family regardless of so-called legal decisions that are wrong and, IMHO, very unconstitutional. There's much more background and justification for Bundy's position but not enough room here to inform you of same. Do your research. Someone(s) has to stand up to overreaching government so we can go back to living under our Constitution. Government at all levels has overreached, but the Federal Government is the worst. They totally ignore States' rights and States' sovereignty. It is the responsibility of "We the People" to stop this run-away Federal Government. I applaud the Bundy family and those Texas cattlemen fighting the same battle for having the guts to stand up and stop unconstitutional government intrusion. "We the People" need to stand up with them and take back our government.
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Is it simply that conservatives don't have respect for property rights and simply support business interests, whether it's a millionaire rancher without a ranch, or a massive energy company?
That is nonsense! Eminent domain confiscation of property among other property issues are not political-party oriented, but again, "We the People" have allowed various government entities to overreach beyond law of private property rights. Keep the damned lawyers out of government issues for starters. Bundy and the Texas ranchers are right to stand up to run-away government.
And what is your legal background to say "so-called legal decisions that are wrong"?
"1998 opinion from U.S. District Judge Johnnie Rawlinson in a case where it was determined Bundy wouldn’t be allowed to use federal land for his cattle because of failure to pay grazing fees to the Bureau of Land Management. Rawlinson wrote that it wasn’t until roughly 1954 that “Bundy or his father or both have grazed livestock on public lands owned by the United States and administered by the BLM.”
Clark County Recorder documents show the 160-acre Bunkerville ranch Bundy calls home was purchased by his parents, David and Bodel Bundy, from Raoul and Ruth Leavitt on Jan. 5, 1948. The purchase included the transfer to the Bundys of certain water rights, including water from the nearby Virgin River. Cliven Bundy was born in 1946."
The ranch was established in the 1870's. You can quote all you want but that will never make right what BLM is doing to the Bundys, the Texas cattlemen and the many other blatant "in your face" crap such as that I mentioned...The Desert Bill!
Judicial decisions made by judges who have limited knowledge of the subject matter driven by lawyers who are in it to make money and not always (very seldom in my experience) concerned with right or wrong have made our judicial system a mockery. Bundy's mistake was in thinking he could represent himself and truth and constitutional law would prevail.
Bottom line..."We the People" need to regain control of our Federal government and kick the Feds out of anything that infringes on States' sovereignty and/or individual rights such as property rights. That's the manner in which our founding fathers put our Constitution together guaranteeing a wonderful American way of life.
The same thing with a railroad, or electrical lines, and all the other oil pipelines. Your short sighted, myopic view of this topic is painful to witness.
Railroads are used to transport all types of goods, resources, and people.
The Keystone XL pipeline is specifically to transport tar sands oil for the benefit of one industry, to the detriment of all other energy industries
The ranch was established in the 1870's. You can quote all you want but that will never make right what BLM is doing to the Bundys, the Texas cattlemen and the many other blatant "in your face" crap such as that I mentioned...The Desert Bill!
Judicial decisions made by judges who have limited knowledge of the subject matter driven by lawyers who are in it to make money and not always (very seldom in my experience) concerned with right or wrong have made our judicial system a mockery. Bundy's mistake was in thinking he could represent himself and truth and constitutional law would prevail.
Bottom line..."We the People" need to regain control of our Federal government and kick the Feds out of anything that infringes on States' sovereignty and/or individual rights such as property rights. That's the manner in which our founding fathers put our Constitution together guaranteeing a wonderful American way of life.
It's not Bundy's "ranch", it's federal land. Just because you say land belongs to you doesn't make it so, sorry Cletus Clive Cliven Ted Bundy Buford!
This land was once Mexican land, and was won by the United States after the Mexican-American War. It is part of what is known as the “Mexican Cession.” All of Nevada, California, Arizona and most of New Mexico were part of the Cession. Much of this land was privatized under various grants and laws such as the Homestead Act and the Desert Lands Act, plus mining claims. Several million acres were granted to Nevada for state lands, but those lands that were not privatized have always been Mexican lands or United States lands owned by the U.S. government. Before the Taylor Grazing Act, these government lands were called “the public domain.” They could be privatized, as mentioned, under the Homestead Act and such, but the acreage allowed per homesteader was limited to 160 acres. There were no 158,000 acre homestead privatizations and certainly no 750,000 acre privatizations. Livestock owners ran their livestock freely without a permit on the public domain. They didn’t even need a home base of property (a ranch). The result was disaster because the operator to find green grass and eat it first won out, promoting very bad grazing practices. That was the reason for Taylor Grazing Act — ranchers and others could see the public domain system led to disaster on the ground. Therefore, the more powerful ranchers with “base” private property received grazing permits. This got rid of the landless livestock operators. Taylor Grazing was administered on the ground by the U.S. Grazing Service. Now, ranchers with grazing permits had to pay a grazing fee to use their permits. Bundy’s ancestors probably got one of these grazing permits, but they most certainly did not buy the land. That was not possible. The public domain was not for sale and ranchers generally did not want it. After all, if they owned it, they would owe local property tax. In 1946** the Bureau of Land Management was created by executive order of President Truman to replace the Grazing Service. The Service had been defunded in a dispute between the House and the U.S. Senate. The BLM has since been affirmed by law rather than a mere executive order. It is supposed to manage the public lands for multiple uses and for sustained production (“yield”) of renewable resources such as grass. As before, you need a grazing permit for cattle, sheep, goats, or horses to legally graze. It is a privilege, not a right, and this has been firmly stated by the U.S. courts.
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